Jesus Christ lived in India

And lets see which opinion is closer to the truth through logic and reasoning.


Of the disputants and debaters, I am Vaada ( logic and reasoning) .
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita).

 

I don't know what your trying to say here at all.

I'm not interested in arguing over this - it's up to you how you interpret the various systems of symbolism from different sources.
I've given my view, and really nothing you've said has done anything to change it.

 

This is what I have said.


And lets see which opinion is closer to the truth through logic and reasoning.


Of the disputants and debaters, I am Vaada ( logic and reasoning) .
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita).

And that is why I have stated the above stuff.

 

You seem very hung up on logic. Perhaps you don't see the limitations.

 

And what is wrong with logic by the way ? Krishna, Buddha, Vashista, Vivekananda and the vedas emphasize it.

 

What's wrong with logic is that is is too narrow and incapable of formulating the real truth. At best, reason can only arrive at partial truths regarding particular matters. It is useless as a tool with which to approach the supra-mental, ie that which is higher than reasoning intellect.

Also logical paradoxes exist, as any student of logic will tell you, which show the problems with it.

One famous one is given by Russell - 'the king of France is well'. On the face of it, this statement is perfectly logical, the problem is that is is based on false premises, as there is in fact no King of France.

This is the situation with all logical processes based on what was once called 'revealed knowledge' - if the revealed knowledge is faulty, all one can hope to do is pile error on error.
And the result will only be yet another verbal formulation.
Another relative idea among many such.

 

But while logic is good...isn't wisdom better? Shouldn't we, to aquire wisdom, have to let go...? Faith isn't logical really...but we need faith to start the search for wisdom, once we recieve it, faith melts away and we don't need it anymore...but in order to have it even in the first place, we had to go through the letting go of logic stage...

I think logic is good...but even it has its limits. So in order to get to a state without limits...don't we have to find the courage to give up our limits?

 

My opinions indeed are based on facts, as shown by the books I have noted in the first post. They themselves contain overwhelming evidence to show that Jesus lived in India. What is there in this thread is just a sample and my own research with other guys.

Also why do you think the Muslim Ahmediyas insist that Jesus was in India. What are they going to gain out of it ?

And why do you think Nicodemus stated that Jesus was in India.

And why do you think 'Doubting Thomas ' came to India, and died there ?

And what do you think about the uncanny similarities in teachings between Christ and the Buddha ( whom even christian scholars say is in the same league as Christ) and Christ and Hinduism ?

And where on earth do you think Christ was during the 'unknown years' , when his childhood details are clearly presented in the Bible , but nothing after that till he returns ?

And why do you think many scholars keep on emphasizing that there is a link between Christ and India , which is acknowledged by the whole world as the land of spirituality, which produced Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira, Guru Nanak, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Paramahamsa Yogananda,Ramana Maharshi and other great spiritual masters, which cannot be found anywhere in the world , and whom only Christ can match in spirituality ?

And when the whole christian world was drenched in bloodshed and violence, which is a clear distortion of Jesus's teachings, Mahatma Gandhi of India , practiced the philosophy of resistance based on non-violence against the British , and with gentleness and love , overcame the British empire ( where the sun never sets) and sent the Britishers packing, thus proving the potency of non-violence, as taught by the Rishis, Buddha and Jesus to the whole world and became a role model for Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Aung saan kyi, Dalai Lama, Lech Walesa,Desmond Tutu all of whom received the Nobel Prize for peace, while their mentor did not, and who inspired Cesar Chavez, Benigno Aquino and others as well.

Don't you feel intuitively an uncanny similarity between Jesus and Gandhi ?


Who do you think Christ would be identified with, Israel , where he was crucified,Christian Europe which had shed an ocean of blood under imperialism, colonialism, nazism, fascism, communism, and other isms, or India, the land of non-violence , Mahavira and Gandhi and especially Buddha, who appealed to an astonished king in ancient India to spare the life of the goat he was going to sacrifice in a ritual and sacrifice himself ( buddha ) instead , and whose efforts resulted in the end of animal sacrifiices in India ?

Think for yourself,feel from your heart, use your intuitions and find out for yourself .

 

My opinions are based on facts. It's all a question of how you interpret facts.

Sometimes people mistake fact for speculation or opinion or tradition, as I sugeest you are doing with this idea of Jeus visiting India.

 

I agree with most of this - the only thing I'd say is that I don't think we ever reach a stage where faith isn't necessary.

 

as far as I understand it...in a Vedantic point of view (but perhaps I understood the lecture wrong)...if you are One (samadhi I suppose)...than what needs do you have for faith if you are experiencing it...faith is the conviction in something you can't "see"...but if you "see" it everywhere...its not faith anymore but experience...

...but I could have understood that wrong.

 

I'm not sure. How many people see IT continually? Not many I'd guess. So even if you have some experience, you still need faith in the experience you had.


In more general terms, you need faith in yourself, faith in the universe and faith in being itself.

 

And thats what I said, lets get to the core of the matter through Vaada, or logic and reasoning, and see which opinion is closer to the truth.

 

And what does the supra-mental has to do with this, though I don't have any problems if you wish to employ it as well in this debate .

Well, I believe 2+2=4, in every society or country. It has not changed yet, and I don't think it will change.

Truth indeed is objective , not subjective, and we have to arrive at it through logic or intuition or with both of them.

 

Logic is good, and indeed wisdom is better. As Einstein himself said, " Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame."

We need both logic and wisdom , as taught by Krishna, Buddha, and Vivekananda.

Logic indeed has its limits , and it is true that we have to transcend it. But as Vivekananda in the opening post of the thread " The real cause of Islamic terrorism" states, inspiration complements reason or logic.

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So we see this danger by studying the lives of great teachers like Mohammed and others. Yet we find, at the same time , that they were all inspired. Whenever a prophet got into the superconscious state by heightening his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only some truths, but some fanaticism also, some superstition which injured the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any reason out of the mass of incongruity we call human life, we have to transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically , slowly, by regular practice, and we must cast off all superstition .We must take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason itself will show us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man say, “I am inspired” , and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why? Because these three states-instinct, reason, and superconsciousness , or the unconscious, conscious, and superconscious states-belong to one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but one state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason, and reason into the transcendental consciousness; therefore, not one of the states contradicts the others. Real inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfils it. Just as you find the great prophets saying, “ I come not to destroy but to fulfil” , so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in harmony with it."

----Swami Vivekananda
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I’m saying that we should trust our intuition. I believe that the principles of universal evolution are revealed to us through intuition. And I think that if we combine our intuition and our reason, we can respond in an evolutionary sound way to our problems.’
— Jonas Salk
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The fact that modern physics, the manifestation of an extreme specialisation of the rational mind, is now making contact with mysticism, the essence of religion and manifestation of an extreme specialisation of the intuitive mind, shows very beautifully the unity and complementary nature of the rational and intuitive modes of consciousness; of the yang and the yin.”
Fritjof Capra
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Any person who has made observations on the state and progress of the human mind, by observing his own, cannot but have observed that there are two distinct classes of what are called thoughts — those that we produce in ourselves by reflection and the act of thinking, and those that bolt into the mind of their own accord. I have always made it a rule to treat those voluntary visitors with civility, taking care to examine, as well as I was able, if they were worth entertaining, and it is from them I have acquired almost all the knowledge that I have.

--Thomas Paine ( Age of Reason)





You can understand from this that logic and reason has to go along with intuitions or the superconscious state.

 

arty:

 

And again what does the supramental has to do with our debate on "Jesus lived in India."

There have been other numerous debates , and the supramental stuff never figured in it, only cold ruthless logic, which I think you are not capable of.





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We are discussing about jesus in India. Not about getting enlightenment.

 

cus you have to be supermental to concern yourself whether or not jesus lived in india

 

And why not ? What is the problem if I do concern myself on whether Jesus lived in India or not ?

As far as I am concerned he did live in India. And I am deeply convinced about it. And I am only presenting this along with the facts.

A Japanese buddhist scholar has stated that while Japan is his motherland , it was India that was his fatherland. Similarly I state that while Palestine was Jesus's motherland, it was India that is his fatherland.

If you have the guts try to refute what I said.