Isn't Veganism a first world privledge?

I went to a place called India some years ago. There was plenty of places to eat which were "Pure Vegetarian" which was their way of saying Vegan.
There was millions of people there.

 

Just to make a nitpicky distinction, which is that "first world" and "third world" aren't very accurate terms to use anymore, if they ever were, as they originally referred to countries that were fully Capitalistic compared to countries that aren't.

That aside, yes, in the sense that you are using the terms, I agree that veganism is a "first world" privilege. The Masai don't have that option, and neither do many other pastoralist peoples or the few remaining hunter-gatherers. It is a luxury brought primarily with agriculture (not to be conflated with horticulture).

 

Is there such a thing as second world nations? Because that is where I would put india. I would love to know if anyone has seen vegan shops in nigeria or etheopia or even kenya.

 

Yes, but second-world nations, strictly speaking, refers to countries that have largely Western values and are somewhere between Capitalism and not-Capitalism. Like Hungary, for example.

Usually in the social sciences today we use "undeveloped", "developing" and "developed" or some permutation thereof to represent countries with various levels of economic development according to Capitalist standards.

 

It is also important to remember that even the very poorest nations have their wealthy and middle class, and they tend to concentrate in urban areas. Therefore, urban areas have stores and restaurants to serve the wealthier populations.

 

I think that you've got absolutely no excuse to eat meat other than your tastebuds if you're living in a privileged country with so many affordable alternatives.

 

Part of the reason I'm vegan is because of the exploitation of animals in our richer countries. We breed them like crazy and slaughter them after leaving them in poor conditions for their entire life, some of them never having seen daylight before and then half of them are turned into extremely processed crappy convienice food, half of which goes to waste. I refuse to support that industry (even the smaller local ones/dairy farms now too because I have no desire or need for meat) I wouldn't mind so much if animals were eaten here as a means to survive but they arent, they are eaten excessively and wasted. Whereas in a poorer country where they would have to eat what they've got or what they can find/are given then it is a means for survival.

Like someone else said, its much more of a priviliege to beable to walk into a fast food place and get meat instantly, or just go to the supermarket..

 

There. HUGE point. The amount of food thrown away each day is staggering.

 

While true, not sure of relevance.

 

Not sure where your brother went, but I searched for restaurants in Cairo and found 3 vegetarian places, 3 vegan-friendly places, and to top it off, 2 health food stores selling vegan products.

The internet is a marvelous place.

http://www.happycow.net/africa/egypt/cairo/
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/egypt/restaurants/vegetarian

 

This plus any animal products.

 

10,000,000 people.. 8 stores.. i would hardly call that meeting the needs.. seems more like a specialty.... and I highly doubt they are the easiest places to find.. without the interwebz

Vegetarian/Vegan.. all gets thrown out the door when it comes down to countries and civilizations that depend on getting by.. seems more of a "developed country" option though.. than what the OP would call a "1st world choice"... like others have said.. i'm sure there are places where people predominately eat nuts, fruits, grains, greens.. but in times of drought or in times of great celebration.. they look to meat.. problem with meat.. is that it can expend a lot of energy.. especially for hut dwellers to camp out, track, and hunt for enough protein to feed the village.. hence why more often than not they are gatherers first.. and hunters secondly

 

I'm not vegetarian or vegan (I've got chickens in my backyard at this very moment), but I agree that from a global consumption/exploitation perspective it's really significant to examine the resources consumed by raising meat and make conscious decisions, as much as we can, about what products we buy or eat. Globalization makes this an increasingly difficult prospect, as a vegan food or clothing option may in many cases still be part a heavily processed and exploitative process. I try as much as possible to be a consumer minimalist and a locavore, and I heavily prefer whole food/good options where available. Even so, as an American I am trapped into the exploitative consumer cycle to some degree even though I try to avoid it: I am wearing a cotton hoodie made in Honduras right now, I am typing on a computer, and in a few hours I will get in a car and drive to my job as a social work researcher.

We may try to be as good as possible, but try is all we can do, and both "good" and "possible" are relative.

A recent (and ongoing) epidemiological study of our local Warm Springs tribes found that toxins in the fish from Columbia river basin pollution was increasing the rates of cancer among the members of this population, who have a heavily salmon-based diet. This alarmed the tribal members and many of them started avoiding the traditional Native diet in favor of a Western diet. A second phase of the epidemiological study found that the Western diet was causal to highly increased morbidity compared to the traditional diet even factoring in salmon contamination. Veganism would not be a practical or healthy recommendation for this population, who traditionally eat about 300 pounds of salmon per person per annum. Instead, the tribal council in partnership with the State health department began a campaign for a return to the traditional diet, including cooking salmon in the traditional way which allows the fat, where most of the contaminants concentrate, to run off onto the ground during cooking.

Nothing is simple, and no blanket statements can be applied to all people universally, as appealing as they may seem initially.

 

He could of possibly found something vegetarian. But the people he was staying with were poor, and they ate what was closet to them, which happened to be partly meat. If he would of said Im not eating this, I want vegtarian, he would of 1. offended them and 2. he just wouldn't of got any food.

I know he could of tried to be some righteous fool and tried to persuade them to eat vegetarian, but truthfully, culturally, it just wouldn't work. In that culture you do what you got to do to survive, the money and the means of getting food isn't high enough for a choice.

 

I think it is more an education issue. Often in "poor" places more "privileged" societies have come in to the tell the locals they are in need of special nutrients from certain foods and that they will sell it to them, provide them with animals, take their land or give them "free" processed food aid in exchange for learning from their institutions.

In many "poor" places it would be much easier to consume produce than meat, but again the people have to be educated, and I don't mean in institutions. They need to exercise critical thinking skills and in many cases they have been too trusting of outsiders and allowed others to completely alter their culture.

I know people who have moved to Egypt, Kenya, many other "poor" places because produce actually grows really well there, things are cheaper and they can help the locals to reclaim their culture, land and health. In some of these places, the locals are not very trusting of outsiders and you can see there are pockets/communities of vegans and vegetarians holding strong in these areas. Also a lot of the creation stories and folk tales, tell of times when people did not eat meat or animal products. Also, a little research will show you that at certain times of the year many of these cultures purposely abstained from animals/products and that many of their healers were vegan/vegetarian and that they ate a lot less meat/animal products before "colonization", "commercial agriculture", etc. came in and still do, not just by coincidence, but by choice...although there are some places that believe they absolutely must have meat, according to the health education they've received by outsiders and would eat more of it if they could.

So no, I don't think it is a first world issue.

 

I don't think anyone should be concerned with offending anyone with their veg*nism. If they are, then they don't get the point of what they're doing lol.
I think the only thing to be concerned with is having food, though. But I honestly know nothing about his options as a vegetarian.

 

i have alwayz thought of veganism as a first world problem,

hell try being homeless, trust me, your gonna eat meat sooner or later, your gonna give in. unless you wanna starve,,,

 

If you were so poor, where would you get a cow? Also, an alternative to raising those animals is to slaughter them for meat and use your animal feed as human feed, which would increase your food supply because you would only recover 10% of the calories you fed your animal, which is a bad investment and a luxury that only people with access to the amount of excess food to keep cattle can afford.

 

^well that's why back in the day they used to let the cow graze the prairie^