IMPORTANT - Don't go into London today if you don't have to

You can compromise all you want. But the mad mullahs WILL NOT STOP until you are Muslim or dead. The Koran has these verses - some believe it with miltiant fervor.

So you have one of three choices.

1) Capitulate. Declare Britain a Moslem nation, close down the CofE and murder all non-Moslems.

2) Round up anyone who is Muslim and send him her or it home, and shoot anyone who tries to get back in

3) Continue to accept that people will die.

 

It's-not-just-about-islam...

It's-about-the-sickening-murders-of-innocent-civilians-the-UK-and-the-USA-inflicted-on-Iraq-(and-korea-etc-etc-etc...watch-this-space-for-Iran)...read-some-Chomskey-maybe?...theres-a-lot-of-hatred-that's-been-building-up-for-a-long-time

Murder-is-sickening-and-wrong...but-we-are-all-made-of-the-same-flesh-and-bones...

I-hate-what-these-people-have-done...but-your-ideas-on-stopping-this-violence-are-as-dumb-as-George.W.Bushes!

You-can-never-just-get-rid-of-people-that-disagree-with-you..however-wrong-you-or-I-may-think-they-are...

My-friend-just-called....her-twin-is-dead...

 

RE:It's-about-the-sickening-murders-of-innocent-civilians-the-UK-and-the-USA-inflicted-on-Iraq-(and-korea-etc-etc-etc...watch-this-space-for-Iran)...read-some-Chomskey-maybe?...theres-a-lot-of-hatred-that's-been-building-up-for-a-long-time

That doesn't change a thing. And by the way collateral damage in war is not murder. We don't talk of German civilians or British civilians during the blitz being murdered.

RE: I-hate-what-these-people-have-done...but-your-ideas-on-stopping-this-violence-are-as-dumb-as-George.W.Bushes!

You stop violence by stopping the aggressor.

RE: You-can-never-just-get-rid-of-people-that-disagree-with-you..however-wrong-you-or-I-may-think-they-are...

Tell the mad mullahs that.

RE: My-friend-just-called....her-twin-is-dead...

Sorry to hear it.

As for Meng, ?

 

No...but-we-are-older-and-wiser-now...surely

I-think-i-summed-up-how-impossible-that-would-be...

not-worth-a-comment

hmm?

 

So irongoth ... what do you propose as a solution and how are we going to realistically implement it without more innocent people getting hurt?

 

Paul: Very simple. Tell them the next suicide bomb that goes off, the next terrorist attack, and Makkah and Medina go up in smoke.

 

Oh that's realistic isn't it?

I also recall saying "without more innocent people" getting hurt?

 

yup..great-idea-bud-...

let's-just-counter-blow-each-other-up....til-theres-no-one-left...

 

I can't believe I'm even debating with someone who wants to nuke a whole city .

It's like treehouse all over again.

 

NO...it's-important-to-talk-about-this...I-have-no-idea-where-talking-will-lead-us*don't-mean-on-hipforums....cos-I-am-reliably-informed-that-we-actually-aren't-the-centre-of-the-universe *....but-we-need-to-get-this-talked-about-honestly...

even-if-this-thread-isnt-the-place...soz

 

OK then

Supposing we threaten to nuke the middle east and some nutjob thinks we're bluffing?

He blows up a bus somewhere, claims it as alqaeda and so not to lose face we go off and nuke Mecca? Then what will happen? Problem solved?

Somehow I doubt it

 

Exactly....You-can't-stop-people's-opinions-if-you-cut-them-off...

censorship-shields.....but-dosn't-change-underlying-causes/feelings/beliefs

 

Hegemony or survival? - "delicate social and political problems can not be bombed or missiled out of existence," " By dropping bombs and firing missiles, the united states only spreads these festering problems. violence can be likened to a virus; the more you bombard it, the more it spreads."

I don't know what to say claire, i'm really sorry for his whole family and friends, i hope they have the strength get through this as quickly as possible, the sooner this is resolved peacefully the better. I'm truly hurt that the news wasn't good, i think its time to show some respect.

 

RE: Oh that's realistic isn't it?

Makkah is a rock that all Muslims must pray to five times a day. Allah would not allow it to be destroyed. If we destroy it that puts an end to Islam, because it wouldn't make sense that Allah would allow one of the great pillars (the pilgrimage to worship a meteorite) to fall.

So all these Saudi folk manipulating people with the Koran would have to give serious pause.

Makkah is not usually inhabited.

And of course, if we give adequate notice, people can evacuate. If they choose to stay believing that Allah will protect them they would get a very severe dose of reality.

Point is, until you threaten something that's serious to them they won't care. I don't mean ALL MOSLEMS I mean the mad mullahs.

 

Then these nutjobs will then make a statement like "Mecca will rise up stronger than ever to defeat Satan". If they can twist their religion to their own ends now, they will carry on doing so no matter what.

 

See, here's what I'm saying ----

"You try and destroy our world, we WILL destroy yours. You will no longer be able to point your nose at the ground five times a day at some rock somewhere because it won't exist, and if you try to visit where it was you will die of cancer."

And to the rich Saudis who are masterminding this it is "you will have a VERY HARD TIME convincing people to become Ramadan crackers if Islam is proven wrong by the fact that one of the pillars of Islam just went foom" (if God is almighty he wouldn't allow the meteorite to be made into a pillar of glass) so they'd strangely find some other method to prevent civil war.

 

Myself and a friend were very lucky. She was one of the first people to be evacuated from Kings Cross, and I made it to work (work experience at a music mag) before I realised what had ahappened. If I'd taken the tube, which to get to work goes through euston, kings cross and ends at edgware road, I might not be writing this! I just feel so much for people affected. Worse is not knowing.

 

But there is also an incredible danger in this line of action... if we are agreed that we are making this threat to deal with the actions of a minority of Muslims - don't we then run the risk of transforming the peaceloving majority into the same kind of extremeist warmongers that we have in the minority...

And I understand the logic of your position... if we can destroy the holy sites of Islam then we can prove the religion to be false because of the reasons that you have stated... but you forget that you are dealing with religion and that religion does not operate in a logical way... I've had enough conversations with hardcore chrsitians to know that you cannot proove a religion to be false because religion operates on the basis on faith... indeed the complete abscence of proof can be seen to be a factor that makes faith stronger... I think to follow your course of action could kick-start a full scale holy war which this planet would not survive... I don't think applying the lessons of Hiroshima can be transferred to this situation...

Remember... Bush has been elected primarily be a hardcore religious right who see hime to be defender of the faith... the person who will lead them through the rapture... the end of days... armeggedon... I remember reading some stuff about Bush's home town... they believe this stuff as equally strongly as these Muslims believe in their relevant myth structures...

These are shit scary times and there are no easy answers...

Fly...

 

Exactly, how many times have we heard the prankster god theory, burying dinosaur bones to catch the faithless. It would just be seen as a time to fight if you tested their faith. Scary times alright, no need to be uncivilized towards other normal human beings though. No more threats, we'll just out-wit the minority. And it really is a handful in comparrison to the whole world.

 

In the 1930's much of the organised crime and black market in Germany was controlled by jews. The post WW1 depression meant that the country was very much divided with haves and have nots, and even though the majority of jewish people were law abiding citizens, a lot of people got very resentul and blamed all of Germany's problems on them ... and we all know what happened next don't we?

Islam may not be a race, but it is an ethnicity as much as judaism is an ethnicity ... and suggesting that we wipe out a whole ethnicity for the wrongdoings of a small group is bordering on Nazism.