I want to argue with all atheist and antichrist here!

again, where on bible jesus thought the world is flat?????!!!!!!

and, what Jesus said always liable, even about the future. read
mathew 24:2.

even his born similiar with Moses(by mass killing of baby), why you Jew not accept if He is your true messiah? He has fullfilled what your predecessor say about the messiah.

sunya.... you look like an ancient people. rome people. they angry and punish Jesus because He said He is God.
but look, even the soldier who stab Jesus in the cross said " He is Son of God."

He said He will be die at the hand of human long before His punishment.

 

so called christians, or fanatics of any belief for that matter, wouldn't BE fanatics, wouldn't be attacking everyone of every other belief or lack of one, if they were all that secure in their own faith themselves.

fanatacism isn't belief, it uses belief as an excuse, because insecure people lack the imagination to think of anything better or more gratifying to do. this is why it is pointless to argue with them. they don't hear anything but their own self deception. even the revealers of their own beliefs couldn't stand their inanity. that's why even christ prefered the company of athiests and political activists to theirs, and EVERY revealer of organized belief pointed out that they were missing the point of their teachings and in no way represented themselves nor them.

an honest person of real faith would not be compelled by their insecurity in it, to agrue about it with anyone. they might attempt to plant seed of intrest in it, and water those seeds with their own calm and secure faith. but NOT look for excuses to ARGUE about it.

a fanatic isn't a christian or a moslem or anything else, but a breaker of their own covenent.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I'm sorry, I have to go with coincidence. the human body is an amazing and beautiful thing. why? well, why does god feel we are not worthy enough of a miracle? why does he let us rely on faith rather than let us know he's here? let us know he's still watching over us and our prays are not a waste?

but besides that, what about all the other religions? how do we know they're not right? some have been around longer than christianity. and if christianity is right, why do other religions exist?

and another question, what will ahppen to the followers of another religion if christianity is thr true religion? is it their fault for believing what they've been raised to believe and not converting? will they go to hell for folowing what they've been raised to believe in?

 

# In John 20:5-7 we find there was a separate piece wrapped around Christ's head. Yet the Shroud of Turin depicts a face on the sheet.
# The Bible says linen strips bound Jesus, not a large cloth (see John 19:40).
# The Bible is the authoritative record of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, and the Bible mentions nothing of a shroud.

This is all from http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/shroud.html (a creationist website, but thankfully, one that doesn't lie, they also debunk the idea that Darwin 'repented' on his deathbed)

Also, yes it was entirely possible to create the shroud with medieval technology, it's been done:

Drawing on a method previously used by skeptics to attack authenticity claims about the Shroud, Science & Vie got an artist to do a bas-relief -- a sculpture that stands out from the surrounding background -- of a Christ-like face.

A scientist then laid out a damp linen sheet over the bas-relief and let it dry, so that the thin cloth was moulded onto the face. Using cotton wool, he then carefully dabbed ferric oxide, mixed with gelatine, onto the cloth to make blood-like marks. When the cloth was turned inside-out, the reversed marks resulted in the famous image of the crucified Christ.

Gelatine, an animal by-product rich in collagen, was frequently used by Middle Age painters as a fixative to bind pigments to canvas or wood.

The imprinted image turned out to be wash-resistant, impervious to temperatures of 250 C (482 F) and was undamaged by exposure to a range of harsh chemicals, including bisulphite which, without the help of the gelatine, would normally have degraded ferric oxide to the compound ferrous oxide.

- From a French scientific report.

Just because science can't cure something doesn't mean that it's impossible to recover from. The body has natural defences too, otherwise no one would have ever survived pre-modern medicine. Some people's bodies are simply more resistant. The miracle idea is just a superstitious way of explaining the apparently unexplainable, same as the ancient Egyptians believing that the sun was carried across the sky by Horus.

 

only your opinion, you cannot argue,

is atheist only just a mere another kind of 'faith'?

 

Can you maybe refer us to where Jesus said this?

 

it's your choice, wether it's coincidence or not,
but be carefull what you think as impossible or miracle, i've study a bit of another strange pseudoscience, and some of it can liable.


your question can explain just with one word.... SIN

that's why dark religion more easy to deal with miracle than from God.

as i said before, i'm not christian fanatic and actually, i'm nearly become atheist, i was not worship anyone and anything beside myself before.

but, i'm actually very curious person too.
i was became critical when somebody talk about bible, just like you.

and someday, somebody argue with me and after think it logic, i can't resist it. and i'm not argue comparing with just atheist, i came conclusion same like you, what about other religion.
isn't fair if other religion cannot go to heaven while since their childhood they taught from their parent to hold that religion?

after comparing with logic thing, i was surprise with the answer.

i can argue with other, but i'll not do that here.
like just what i said, they're closed to argue and debating, even some christian itself.

why atheist? because they think they're not religion, so if i argue with them, they shouldn't be mad, because they're not religion. atheist think about science and logic, that's why i face to face with them with that.
if atheist not open minded, i will say them no more than just a mere 'faith'.
that mean, atheist should open minded person, isn't it?

 

Another theory I've heard is that the image on the shroud may actually have been a crucified man, but not necessarily Jesus. Carbon dating suggests the shroud appeared about the time the King of France moved against the Knights Templar. The story I heard somewhere was that the body in the shroud may have been that of the Head Templar himself, after being tortured and nailed to a door. But since I can't even remember the source of my information, it may be bogus. Interstingly, there are atheists on the committee of scholars studying the shroud who believe in its authenticity. And there are priests on the committee who don't.

 

I agree with you, but there are atheist fanatics, too. We have a few of them on Hip Forums.

 

hoho finnaz, good work. that's what i looking for. this is thread for this.

like just what you said, it's not match with the bible itself.
so wether it's fake or not, it's not attack the bible itself. even it's more prove to bible, if the shroud fake.
i'm not bible master, so i was only check the shroud on three part, not include John.
that's why i'm not mention it earlier about this fact, i myself suspect it, and i challenge you to break it, by saying it's strong evidence.
i suspect because, it's strange for God to let human believe in Him just by shroud, if i look how God personality on Bible as far as i know.
maybe it made by closed religious person. christian itself not every one is open minded ,even so little that open minded.


if John said that, then fake shroud of turin said that. it make bible more liable with their word-even with just a mere shroud, isn't it?>

it's your choice wether its coincidence or not.
like just what i said, the TV show of miracle will show in the end of time, on antichrist era and after it.
just be carefull what you think as impossible, the law of nature so vast to behold by our brain.

 

I'm sorry, but I am confused by your answer. I'm not exactly sure what your trying to say.....

 

okay, sorry if my english bad.

just read it:

your question can be explained with just one word.... SIN
yes, three of them, same answer...SIN
don't forget we're cursed by our ancestor sin(adam and eve),and cursed Son of God--genesis 6, because we born from mother and father cell, who cursed by their elder who cursed by their elder and so on till Adam.
fruit of Eden is the cause, or adam and eve rebel is the cause???
yes, we inherit sin from our ancestor. descendant of sin should be sin too.
look, Jesus case. He born from where?




i can argue with other, but i'll not do that here.
like what i said, they're more often that not , closed to argue, even some christian itself.


why atheist? because they think they're not religious person, so if i argue with them, they shouldn't mad, because they're not religion. atheist think about science and logic as their shield, that's why i do 'face to face' with that one.
if atheist is not an open minded person, i will say them no more than just a mere 'faith'.
that mean, atheist should be an open minded person, isn't it?



clear enough?


don't stop arguing

 

mindtrip, actually, your question hit on the nail about christian itself, i think.
What is christian actually?
and how about other religion?
thank you for your intelligent question.



Okay, start from beginning

this is the story,


God is God. He is Alfa and Omega(begginning and End).
I am I. so He is lonely being.
what happen if you almighty, but you lonely, for very2 long time?
yes, you will create something.
angel, universe and whatsoever.



God arranged the world, because He saw the world in a mess.--i think it was ice age, where major plant and animal died.
He work for 7 days(7000 years), in sixth day he create Human from His breath, make human special, and the most special creature He ever created.
angel created with His word. but different element, fire.


He place them on Eden, eve and adam live happily in Eden, and sometimes God come to them. is eve and adam bear children in eden? you will find the answer later.
but wait. why God place Fruit of sin on Eden?

just think, if you create something. what you want, robot, or something that have emotional, freewill? He had create robot: universe, and heaven.

God is fair. so He put fruit of knowledge on eden. but "only one" thing of sin (i don't know what make eve and adam sinned:eat the fruit, or rebel against God command?) , make the problem as simplest as it can. why? because He is kindhearted too. (just think from your point of view, what you do to your most beautifull creation? yes, you love it, sometimes more than your life).

remember Pandora Box? that's same as fruit of knowledge.

He put all negative side from good side on one point. (His command or fruit of knowledge? it's still mysterious, though)

continue.......

 

which in no way alters any of what you quoted me as saying. which if i'm not mistaken, entirely accounted for that too.

=^^=
.../\...

 

at the same time, just b/c something cannot be objectively proven does not mean it is not true.

 

I agree.

 

in a way yes. the assumption that there cannot be anything we cannot materailly know, is just as blind, niether more nor less, then that there has to be.

the problem with arguing for the sake of doing so, is that it bennifits no person nor belief, lest of all, that of the person doing so.

there is no reason there cannot be things about which we know nothing, if anything it is almost inevitable that there are. the problem with pretending to know anything about them though, is a self contradiction that ought to be obvious.

=^^=
.../\...

 

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