I must say god bless all you beautiful

personally, i prefer to be shaved. it feels better, and i feel cleaner. it doesn't get in the way. i don't do it because i feel i have to, but because i want to. my boyfriend never tells me what to do about it, and though he probably prefers me to be shaved, he doesn't bitch if i let it go for a week or so.

 

There are two types of neurotics: those who know that they are such (and who are curing themselves or plan to do so) and the others…
Those who are suffering from the “emotional plague” are not conscious of it and they can not stand any light shed on the mechanisms of their sickness. In opposition to the neurotics, they project their destructive impulses in the social life.

The majority of the neuroses originate in sexual repression and the repression of the expression of emotions and feelings. It is the same for the emotional plague.

“The sexual freedom is only apparent in the current society. (...) The sex, aroused and repressed, directed and exploited in innumerable forms of material and cultural industry, is absorbed, institutionalized, managed by society - to better manipulate it.”
Theodor W. Adorno, “Sexual taboos and right, today”, in Critical models. Intervention-counterparts, Payot, Paris, 1984, p. 79.

 

Like how people wear clothes because everyone else does and it's considered weird to be naked.

You can say "oh but I like clothes" as much as you want but it doesn't mean you weren't directly influenced by someone else and basically forced to wear them.

People really aren't as free thinking as they think they are

 

yup sexual repression, exploitation and Fascism

“people fall into such or such madness, complain about this or that, because their bodies are stiff, that they are unable to give the love or to enjoy it.”
Wilhelm Reich, in Listening, small man!

Sexual repression is one of the principal pillars of the exploitation. The fascistic neuroses and tendencies (the emotional plague) are consequences of this same sexual repression.

It is what was shown by the psychoanalyst Wilhelm Reich.

According to this one, the body produces a sexual energy which must circulate along the longitudinal axis of the body, from the brain towards the sex. The function of the orgasm is to dissipate this energy. However at the individuals victims of sexual repression, of blockings are formed on various levels, along this axis, and prevent the effective circulation of this energy. These individuals, incompetents to completely dissipate their energy in an orgasm fully carried out, are known as “impotent orgastic”.
These blockings are called “characterial armours”, they appear as well on the body level, by muscular rigidities, as on the psychic level, by character traits nevrotic.
Not being able to be completely dissipated by the means of a fully satisfactory sexual activity, sexual energy is then dissipated via derivatives, in particular mysticism (“the mystical extase”) or sexual perversions (propensity to take pleasure in jokes salaces is a symptom of orgastic impotence) or sadists. The disturbance of the circulation of this energy can also lead to cancer.

Seen in another way, one can regard the center of the individual as being the seat of his vital energy (sexual), allowing him to feel all the emotions and associated with psychic features such as generosity, the love, the exchange with the other individuals. This center is enclosed by layers of characterial armours which were formed gradually during the development of the individual, as his emotions and its sexual instincts have summers repressed, by traumatisms or a continuous repression. These nevrotic layers are the seat of feelings of frustration, violence, fear and rejection of the other, irrational beliefs. Finally over one finds a varnish of sociability which makes it possible the individual to live in company. However when this varnish cracks, in crisis situation, in fact the subjacent impulses are expressed. Thus, for example, in time of war attend one murders, tortures, rapes and plunderings generalized.

“The suppression of the sexual activity of the children and the teenagers is the basic mechanism which produces the characterial structures adapted to political control, ideological, economic [...] the repression of natural sexuality in the child, particularly of the genitality, makes the child apprehensive, timid, obeying, apprehensive in front of the authority, '' nice '', '' quiet ''; it paralyses its rebellious tendencies, because the rebellion is associated with the anguish; it causes, by inhibiting the sexual curiosity of the child, a general obscuration of its critical direction and its mental faculties.” Wilhelm Reich.

Thus sexual repression, causes essential neuroses, product of the armoured individuals, generally not very suited to autonomy and thus supports the tender, the handling and the exploitation of these individuals. Etienne of Boétie had already noticed this propensity so that it called the “voluntary constraint”, without being able to be explained the origin of it. It is this characteristic which allows capitalism, system based on the exploitation of the man by the man, to thrive.

Sexual repression also involves the development of nonrespectful sexual behaviors of the people, of fascistic behaviors (need to rely on a chief), irrational behaviours as well as mystical tendencies.

Thus, capitalism and Fascism resting on the same root, are indissociable.

One will remember the cry of a pro-Franco officer (fascistic camp) of the war of Spain: “Viva the muerte!” (Death Lives!) follow-up of “Died in the intelligence!” Pronounced on October 12, 1936 at the University of Salamanque by the general Jose Millán Astray of the Spanish foreign legion (or an officer of its continuation). They are demonstrations completely typical of the emotional plague, mental disease which is one of the possible consequence of the repression of sexuality.

 

wow, thanks for that! It makes sense that holding in your sexuality would manifest itself in fetishes and other outlets.

I thought about it for a second, and the people I know with the most weird sexual fetishes are people that don't get laid and sit at their computer all day

as I began to grow more comfortable with my own body and being nude, etc. I stopped being interested in more extreme fetishes and sex stopped dominating my life

 

Thank you.

 

I don't think arguing with you will do any good, nor do I think I'm as informed as I would need to be to do so. For as much as I know, you could be right. It is apparent that you have studied this, and so my earlier post may not be appropriate directed at you. It was more for the women who get caught up in the 'natural' way, completely ignoring the less "emotionally plagued" reasons why someone would shave.

Whatever the case, I'm glad you found some solace in what you have found, I just don't know if it's the same solace that I need/seek.

 

I've also read studies that state that women who shave their pubes have a more consistent healthy relationship with their vagina. The ritual of shaving from the washing to looking at it in a hand mirror to the pushing together and pulling apart of the labia and all of the touching involved in that certain act.

I have also had encounters in past relationships where I have been the one doing the shaving. There is a certain trust and intimacy in letting someone you are sexually involved with take a sharp object and removing hair from around one of your most intimate areas with the faith that you will not be cut. Then from there using an electric device that vibrates moving around a sensitive area ups the ante. I've also let female partners shave my pubes off. It's all a matter of personal preference. As for me I really don't care if a partner is shaved or not.

As an adult survivor of Child Sexual Abuse I take issue with the arguement that people who like shaved genitals are closet pedophiles. That to me is like saying that 37 year old women in Hello Kitty t-shirts are just looking to bag a ped. I don't see you making any grandiose statements like that. Rather then going after something that is obvious like that you fixate on the pubic hair or lack of pubic hair that the general public doesn't see. Granted I think it is basically sad and pathetic when I see Gwen Stefani on TV trying to look and act like a High school Senior.

As for changing the way men look at women who have pubic hair. Ain't gonna happen. There will always be women who don't shave.

While we are on the topic of body hair I don't see you slinging rocks at the fact that you never see pictures in the media of men with arm, leg, or chest hair. 30 years ago a man was considered more masculine if he had a pelt on his chest now he is just considered a schmuck who is trapped in the past.

I see we have a general emasculation of what is sexy going on. Look at who the media has made into sex symbols now. Ryan Renolds is on the cover of People Magazine as "The Sexiest man Alive" currently. To me he is fairly disposable yet 15 years ago Sean Connery held the same title. Big difference between those two. 30 years ago it was Robert Plant with his long flowing hair singing "Squeeze me baby until the juice runs down my leg". Now it is the Jonas Brothers and the Purity rings. Or the stars of Twilight who look like the staff at Abercrombie and Fitch.

Stay Brown,
Rev J

 

Yes I have studied this. But my hobby is learning and asking questions and it is genetic for me. (my mother was FLQ)

So allow me to try and put it in less text book and more basic terms and I'll avoid the connection to totalitarianism for now. Unfortunately I'm not conversing in my first language. (You're canadian, do you understand french ? It would make things easier for me.)

1) Our society has a situation where a woman existing in her "naturel" state is seen as NOT being worthy of desire. This in return creates women with low opinions of themselves. (And yet there should be no reason for it.)

2) The low self-esteem is a socially induced normative. Done by the use of advertising and various medias.

This is how the propoganda works: it creates frustration or low self-esteem in order to then sell to the victims, products and services to fill the gap. Hair removal devalues a woman and makes her feel alienated in her own body.


I can not make this more basic than that. For anything else, I refer you to the post done by « OhSoDreadful »

 

I like shaved, trim and unshaved ladies.

And something not mentioned much in such threads on that topic is that for some ladies (maybe many of them; but "some" comes from from my limited experience) - is that many ladies don't just "only always stay shaved" or trimmed, or unshaven.

Some vary what they do. Maybe shaved this year, trimed next year. Unshaved for some time too. One lady can vary what she does in that area.

I highly disagree with your rather hollow "accusation" that anyone that "enjoys" shaved persons (male or female) must have peodophila in them. :devil:

I have two [male] friends that keep their heads shaved "bald".

Since babies are born with very little head hear -does that mean they are also pedos? OF COURSE NOT.

Same for your rather disgusting accusatory anology.

Shaving or trimming is just a personal preferece. It has NOTHING to do with peodophila or being a "closet pedophile".

JMO

 

the liking shaven junk making you a pedo theory sounds vaguely Freudian

 

No, I can`t speak/read French, but you're doing very well speaking/writing English.

However, there are also a lot of advertisements arguing for natural looks. I mean, I think I see more people mocking ads than I see ads. I rarely watch TV, and besides the internet I'm not really exposed to ads: and most of them are being 'natural' because I spend most of time on HF.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my body. I like my body. It's not the feminine physique that one sees in magazines, but it works for me.

You're logic isn't wrong, but I don't think it applies to everyone.

 

According to the Novembre 2008 issue of CARD. (Canada Advertising Rates and Data) The average canadian/canadien is exposed over 150 times per day to primary advertsing. With slightly more than half being out of home media (Not television) .

And the average canadian/candien is exposed to secondary advertising over 200 times each day.

Nb: Primary advertising is ads that you personally have seen or heard.
Nb: Secondary advertising is the ads you are exposed to due to people that you interact with, who have viewed or heard primary advertising.

But this problem is more than advertising. Much much more.
You really have to be prepared to read a fair amout of information to understand why genital epilation is one of the primary tools to repression and loss of freedoms. I can send you the links to a couple of resources on the net, but they will be in french. (I really wish our stupid nation would just adopt a policy of bilingualism and not this quasi garbage we have.)

 

Completely agree.

 

Only because I feel obligated to play the role of the "intolerant and ignorant Québécois". Here is some home-work to get you started. (It is an article I wrote for un underground newspaper)

==================

J'ai souvent lu des commentaires sur l'épilation qui me paraissent erronés ou incomplets. Ce qui suit vous permettra de reconsidérer votre vision sur la pilosité des femmes.

Il faut savoir que le poil est le symbole de la maturité sexuelle, chez l'homme et la femme. Ce qui signifie que, contrairement à tout ce qu'on entend partout, le poil EST le symbole de la femme. En effet, ce qui distingue une fillette impubère d'une adolescente pubère, c'est l'apparition des seins mais surtout, des poils pubiens et aux aisselles.

Il est donc tout à fait erroné de dire qu'une femme qui a des poils n'est pas féminine ou encore pire, pas propre, négligée, etc. C'est simplement une femme qui accepte son corps et qui n'a pas besoin d'artifice. D'ailleurs, si c'était "sale", les hommes alors le sont parce qu'ils ne s'épilent pas ? C'est ridicule.

Mais alors me direz-vous, comment en sommes-nous arrivés là ? Pourquoi est-ce que le poil chez la femme provoque tant de répulsion (surtout chez les hommes) ?

Il faut savoir que pendant des siècles, la majorité des femmes ne s'épilaient pas et ça n'a jamais dérangé les hommes. Il y avait d'autres préoccupations plus importantes. Mais au début du 20ème siècle, lorsque la publicité et le cinéma ont débuté aux USA et que les femmes commençaient à montrer leurs épaules nues, des publicitaires travaillant pour une marque de lame de rasoir (Wilkinson) ont imaginé un slogan pour conquérir un nouveau marché : celui des femmes. Ils ont matraqué les gens avec des messages du genre "ce n'est pas beau, pas féminin, pas hygiénique, etc.". (Il y a quelques articles en anglais sur le web qui retracent l'historique du rasage depuis des siècles, je ne m'étendrai donc pas sur cet aspect). Ils rendaient ainsi les femmes plus "jeunes", elles ressemblaient alors aux jeunes filles impubères, c'est le mythe de la jeunesse éternelle. A cette époque, les hommes avaient tous la moustache et/ou la barbe. Ce raccourci ridicule a commencé à faire son chemin dans la tête des gens et petit à petit, s'est imposé pour devenir quelque chose de "normal". Une vraie femme doit s'épiler.

C'est donc un véritable lavage de cerveau qui dure depuis un siècle et ça va de mal en pis puisqu'on voit de moins en moins de femmes non-épilées, surtout dans les médias. On voit ainsi des films "historiques" qui respectent dans le moindre détail les costumes de l'époque mais quand une femme censée vivre au 18ème siècle lève les bras et qu'on voit ses aisselles, elles sont épilées ! C'est tout aussi ridicule que si elle avait un téléphone portable ou une montre digitale, c'est totalement anachronique. Comme l'actrice Kate Winslet dans le film Titanic (la scène ou Leonardo di Caprio la peint). Le réalisateur James Cameron s'est posé la question de savoir si l'actrice devait apparaître naturelle, comme les dessins représentant des femmes nues qu'on voit dans la scène. Mais il a décidé que ce n'était pas "beau", que ça ne correspondait pas aux critères de notre époque. Je ne parle même pas de tous ces films soi-disant historiques censés nous montrer la vie des gens du temps de Jésus, aucune femme n'a le moindre poil ! Pareil pour le feuilleton "Lost", des femmes sur une île déserte où la survie est le quotidien mais qui ont le temps de s'épiler, ce n'est absolument pas crédible. En montrant donc partout des femmes épilées, on inscrit dans l'inconscient des gens que c'est la peau lisse qui est "naturelle" et les poils qui ne le sont pas. Quand on voit comment certaines adolescentes de 13-14 ans sont déjà très sensibles à ça, on se rend compte que le message est inscrit en profondeur, ces jeunes filles ont l'impression que c'est leur pensée et que ce sont elles qui ont décidé de s'épiler.

Je rends hommage aux femmes connues qui ont osé braver les interdits non-écrits de notre société occidentale en affichant leur pilosité. Je pense à des chanteuses comme Catherine Ringer (des Rita Mitsouko) ou An Pierlé, à des actrices comme Sandrine Bonnaire, Isabelle Huppert, Béatrice Dalle (dans 37°2) et même Julia Roberts qui a reconnu ne s'épiler que lorsqu'elle jouait des rôles. Cela lui a d'ailleurs valu des commentaires peu élogieux en 1999 quand elle est apparue à la présentation du film "Coup de foudre à Notting Hill" avec une robe sans manches, montrant une toison aux aisselles. Elle s'est fait littéralement assassiner par la presse, à croire que ces quelques poils faisaient d'elle un monstre qui n'avait plus aucun talent de comédienne. D'autres actrices ont témoigné qu'à Hollywood, il est hors de question d'apparaître dans un film sans être épilées, certaines n'ont pas été retenues pour avoir refuser de se soumettre à ce diktat aberrant des producteurs. Par contre, les actrices avec (au choix) silicone, collagène, tatouage et piercing (qui n'est rien d'autre que de la mutilation pour dire les choses crûment) sont vénérées, comme Pamela Anderson qui ne doit plus rien avoir d'origine, comme le tuning pour les voitures. C'est la dictature de l'artifice et la censure du naturel, on marche sur la tête.

Dans la publicité, c'est pareil. Il y a une grande diversité de femmes : des petites, des grandes, des minces, des plus rondes, des blondes, des brunes, des rousses, des yeux bleus, verts, gris, bruns mais vous ne verrez jamais le moindre poil aux aisselles. Cette uniformité est très inquiétante et entretient le fameux lavage de cerveau dont je parle.

De plus, l'attirance de certains hommes pour les femmes épilées est un signe inconscient de pédophilie (j'en vois déjà qui sursautent). En effet, en exigeant que la femme soit presque entièrement glabre, ils recherchent la petite fille qu'elle a été. Il ne s'agit pas d'une déviance sexuelle mais d'un attrait inconscient pour la "pureté" de l'enfant, il ne faut pas s'en culpabiliser, juste en être conscient. J'ai constaté que lorsqu'on dit cela à certains hommes concernés, ils ont une réaction épidermique, refusant l'idée que ce soit quelque chose d'inconscient qui les pousse à exiger un corps sans poil. C'est dire s'ils sont atteints mais l'idée d'être assimilé à un pédophile les bloque.

On entend parfois "c'est culturel, cela dépend du pays d'origine de la femme". Ce n'est pas faux, il existe en effet des pays où la pilosité féminine ne pose pas de problème mais dès qu'une femme originaire de ces pays arrive dans un pays occidental, elle se sentira obligée (sans que personne ne le lui dise) de s'épiler les aisselles. Par contre, elle conservera souvent ce qui est propre à sa culture. Les Africaines, par exemple, qui gardent leur coiffure typique.

En conclusion, je dirais ceci aux femmes : oubliez le dicton "il faut souffrir pour être belle". L'épilation est très douloureuse et provoque d'ailleurs des allergies chez beaucoup de femmes. Un homme qui exige que vous soyez épilée pour lui plaire ne vous aime pas. Car s'il s'arrête à un détail physique, il est plus branché sur les apparences que sur vos qualités humaines. Faites le test : laissez pousser vos poils quelques semaines en prétextant une irritation de la peau. Si votre compagnon pousse des cris d'horreur en voyant vos poils, il est temps de reconsidérer la pérennité de votre couple.

Acceptez votre corps et aimez-le tel qu'il est, refusez d'être dégoûtée par quelque chose de naturel et ne vous laissez pas manipuler par les medias qui formatent la femme de plus en plus. Il ne s'agit pas de laisser tomber complètement l'épilation mais plutôt de réfléchir à la raison qui vous pousse à souffrir. Vous avez le droit de ne pas aimer les poils, comme on peut ne pas aimer le poisson ou les escargots. Mais si vous avez en tête que les poils, c'est sale/pas féminin/pas hygiénique, ce ne sont pas de bonnes raisons.

Et aux hommes, je dirais ceci : ne jugez pas une femme qui ne s'épile pas. Dites-vous qu'elle a sûrement de bonnes raisons de le faire et intéressez-vous plutôt à des choses plus profondes. Je ne juge pas les femmes qui s'épilent car la pression qu'elles subissent est énorme, je leur dis seulement de ne pas se laisser manipuler. Je ne prône pas la suppression de l'épilation mais comme pour toute chose, il faut une diversité. Si toutes les femmes étaient rousses ou chauves ou avaient des lunettes ou mesuraient 1m80 ou portaient des talons hauts ou avaient un chignon, ce serait monotone. C'est pareil pour l'épilation.

Tout ceci peut paraître anecdotique mais en fait, ça dénote un état d'esprit à la limite du racisme où on juge les gens parce qu'ils sont trop gros, trop petits, trop basanés. Le rejet de la pilosité féminine relève du même mécanisme.