I know without a doubt there is no god

Hammer

Occam does not speak for humanity and is not capable of doing so.

The bible and the quran speak for humanity

That is their job..No?

However..Occam does not think they do. Religion speaks ONLY for those that believe it...

IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE THAT DO NOT.

Occam does NOT..

Is he evil?

Occam

 

Not really. They speak for God.

Them too.

Right.

By my standard, yeah I guess so. But by your standard, I'm brainwashed, indoctrinated, and unwilling to think for myself. So I guess we'll just see, won't we?

 

Im with Sera, i agree

and there were sme real good points in this thread

very good reading

 

PM me, Occam, and let me know more, if you could. I hesitate to join anything, due to past experience, and the wish I have to not discount others.

 

Evil is ignorance of reality. You can see this in another's character by the stance they take on issues.

 

3. Oblivious To Evil

Join us

Evil night of an evil death
Epitome of illusion
Sacrifice of the unborn child
Enter the kingdom of darkness
Sodomized for the ritual
For there is nowhere to run
Open the gates to the manifestation
And grant me the powers of darkness

[Chorus:]
Infernal majesty, take this dead offering
Feeding the demon seed, evil bestowed on me

Exorice the power of dead
Invert my cross of time
The retaim of Satan anarchy
Inside my scared sign

Lucifer bring me the legions of deaths
Abbadon kill until nothing is left
Oblivious to evil

[Lead - Eric/Brian]

Death of defiled the rituals
Of dreams and disillusion
Unlock the box and gimp in pain
Summon the demons of darkness
Evil Gods that fast with flesh
Prepare me for the dead
Release me from the angels so righteous
For your God is dead

[Chorus]

Join US!!!!! "Oblivious to Evil" Deicide/Deicide (1990) (Awesome album)

 

Oh what a lovely verse......so poetic....and um.....disturbing.

 

Hammer

Greets


[TheHammerSpeaks]
Not really. They speak for God.

So YOU say.


Them too.
Right.

Yes of course you must believe the books speak for all...
otherwise they would mean nothing.


By my standard, yeah I guess so. But by your standard, I'm brainwashed, indoctrinated, and unwilling to think for myself. So I guess we'll just see, won't we?

Twisted reply..And you know it.
You do not know occam as a person,, his life in the living...
But you suggest you know he will be tortured forever in a hell you
believe because a book says so.
While occam will defend your very INHERENT RIGHT..
To believe that.
Why..
Because ideas do not kill

People do

 

Blackguard

HOHO

I meant..join us here on this thread....

Occam

 

Kharakov

Great!!!

Glad you too could JOIN US .....ON THIS THREAD....

Pretty average song though... As human acts of evil are far more horrifying than any act of satan...
If the guy next door butchers his kids...
It was the guy next door that did it.
Not satan.
While demons and devils are easy prey.
Occam kills them constantly in Doom3
And who is to say they are any more real than nasties in a PC game?

No-one seems to be able to...


It seems it was a bullet aimed at a target that did not exist...
There is only one US..to join.
You and occam are allready part of it...
We just need to make it so. [as act]


Occam

 

Well, wait a second. The books speak for those who believe in them, no one more. Something doesn't have to speak for everyone to be meaningful.

So, then you don't think I'm brainwashed?

Right. And do you suggest that I will rot in the ground after I die because modern science says so?

That's very true.

 

The album is great. There is just something about it that makes me really happy, probably the song crucifixation. Dunno though...

People don't kill, God kills.

 

My thinking is entirely equivalent to their's - and the reason for my providing those links was for your own opportunity to study up.

If you're not interested in understanding the faults of your views - what, precisely, makes you different from the views of common religionists?

Again, to say a universal negative cannot be proven is a gross misunderstanding of logic. Logic itself is a process of weeding out contradictions from our thought - would be rather odd if it couldn't disprove things, wouldn't you say?

- Laz

 

TheHammerSpeaks
So, then you don't think I'm brainwashed?

No...You were the one that said occam would go hear or there
because you believe it...
Occam never said where you may go.[or himself]
does that mean you are brainwashed?

Right. And do you suggest that I will rot in the ground after I die because modern science says so?

Occam never said a word about where you..your mind will go...
Science says your body and brain rot in the ground...
And there is some justificatioin for that is there not.?

But MIND is not a physical thing it seems..its engine is probably brain..which is physical...
But MIND is way more than we understand.

Occam cannot say MIND ceases to exist on the death of the body...
His method does not allow assumption of such magnitude.

And his method will certainly never make the assumption that anothers mind will be tortured forever because a book says it will.
[Based on no real phenomena]

Method is just that.method...a way of thinking
Desire is the antithesis of it...but also the drive for it.
Use desire.. to understand...
Not control. [others] For desire seem mostly about power over people.
While reason is about understanding...what IS

You desire to live forever

Occam is more pragmatic. He also desires more existance.
But can see no reason why he should have any after this life is over..
Why should he...?
Because of the words in a book?

So occam is happy with the existance he has...its great.

And when he dies...
He gets
A: oblivion ..no worries..that what he had before he was born
B: More existance...no worries..a great new adventure...

A win/win situation... For remember..His story started with non-existance.
And if it ends with it...He still had existance...this life.



Occam

 

Kharakov
People don't kill, God kills.

Kharakov

Show occam real phenomena to back that statement up...



Occam

 

Lazarus
My thinking is entirely equivalent to their's - and the reason for my providing those links was for your own opportunity to study up.

If you're not interested in understanding the faults of your views - what, precisely, makes you different from the views of common religionists?

Again, to say a universal negative cannot be proven is a gross misunderstanding of logic. Logic itself is a process of weeding out contradictions from our thought - would be rather odd if it couldn't disprove things, wouldn't you say?

Lazarus

If your thinking is equivalent to theirs...

Then why would occam bother talking to you...
You are the mouthpiece for others ideas.
Did you have those ideas first?
Occam thinks not.

You have little idea of what occam is interested in.

What universal negative is that?
Reason/logic does not disprove negatives...

It gives example of where positives [thoeries of what is] do not hold true to observation.
If there is such an example. Then a theory must be revised, or abandoned.


Occam

 

Hammer


But what is fact?
do you know what FACT means?

Something experienced by all...
Always.
A thing all agree on.

Your bible and its dogma are no such thing..
yet occam does not say it does not exist.
He says it is improbable as there is no phenomena to support it..
Just human words...

Get it right man...
Occam does not say your belief is false...
He says it is improbable...
And NO REASON to base a life on.
Unless desire says so.

And WHAT process to understanding does desire have.
Greed

Occam

 

It means I stand by my convictions. I have chosen to be a Catholic, and so I must accept all the dogma that goes along with being a Catholic. That's what a comitment is all about.

So what phenomena have you observed that proves the existence of the mind? You could use the cogito, but that's a deduction, not a phenomenon.

Fair enough, I guess.

What exactly is the difference between understanding and control? I don't mean control of other people either (necessarily), I mean control of our environment. Isn't truth (that which is to be understood) just a way of staying in control of our lives? And if truth is really just about control, then wouldn't the most powerful ideas be the real truths?

That is not the motivation behind my faith.

 

If that's what a fact is, then we're in a lot of trouble. You can't get two people to agree on the colour of an off-white shirt (I had like a half hour conversation about this very thing last night) let alone the rules that govern morality. Even if you could get 99.9% consensus, there will always be someone out there who will disagree, even if it's only to be difficult. And I have a lot of admiration for this person, the one who won't give in to the crowd, even if he can't really explain why. It takes a lot of conviction. I'm not worried about facts everyone can agree on, I'm worried about the facts for me.

Isn't having faith to live a good life reason enough?

 

Well, if you know God made you, and you draw the logical conclusion that you are going to do what you were made to do, and then you kill someone, the blood is on God's hands, not yours.

Occam, I am not God. God is the only one who can teach you this. I can tell you the truth, but I do not give you everything that you need to understand it- only God does this.