I Hate Middle Class "Liberals" and "Socialists" (and here's why)

Nah. All politicians aren't the same. Politics are always the same. The politicians are easier to blame.

It's strange that UKanians seem to hate Blair so much more than they are even interested in Bush.
I wonder if reasoning like you've shown is a factor or if you just find Bush foreign and less relevant =P (or that he should be less relevant =/)

 

Simply put, it does not say that it can. The remainder is irrelevant.

Let's see, no annual income tax forms to fill out, flat 15% tax paid on savings interest handled by the bank. No property taxes, no sales taxes, except when shopping in foreign chain stores. No land use laws, no building permits, no school taxes, inexpensive medical care and drugs. U.S. produced drugs are sold much more cheaply here than they are in the U.S. so thank you for that. Three days and nights in the hospital, and major surgery cost me just under the equivalent of $1,000, paid out of pocket. Wages are low, but so are prices. People help one another NOT because government mandates they should, but because they are free to do so, if they wish. A community is like a family, while government tends to try and extend that family beyond the capabilities of those they impose responsibility upon.

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Who brings home the most bacon is not necessarily my primary concern.

I do for people who scam the system, but not for the needy, many of whom are in need because of a failed health care system.

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What would be of primary concern? Who provides the most bacon?

The more disassociated the providers are from those being provided, the greater the possibility for scams to exist. You say a failed health care system is the cause of many being in need? Would it not be more accurate to call it a medical care system? Personally, I am responsible for my own health, but on occasion require medical care, broken bone, surgery, diagnosis of an incapacitating illness, etc. What exactly is failed? Are more people dying because of poor medical care available in the U.S.?

 

It's a chicken or egg situation. You have to be a certain type of person to become a politician. All of the wars and the financial crisis will never affect the politicians as much as they affect the people, so of course they don't care what they do - because they will always be safe.

I don't think we believe he is less relevant; he was one of the most powerful men in the world and that we effect us too. But, a lot of us are proud to be British and Blair was the one in charge of the UK, so we will first look to him and the mistakes he made. Why should be ignore him and focus on Us politics 100% of the time. Just like Those from the US always look to talking about, or criticising Bush before other world leaders.

 

I'm honestly glad to see we have a vast array of ages on this forum. JackFlash (sounds like a Stones fan, so rock on) and Individual (whose name makes sense by reading his posts) have quite differing opinions. One's 62, one's 75. Though, it seems Individual contradicts himself without answering things clearly...making most of his opinions seem high in indifference. It, in a way exuberates the thinking of a conservative; the system is fucked, we are losing freedom (I haven't seen any loss since I was brought into this world during the Reagan years, I've only seen our dollar get less valuable), placing blame on the left (which always leans toward calling the left socialist), all the while offering no solutions. Which the left provides I.E. Social Security and Medicare, which both of you qualify for (and Individual, are you receiving either of these based upon your US Citizen status?)

Yes, Jackflash, we tend to agree on a lot. And Duck's opinions are quite similar to mine, which makes sense as we are both in our 20's. This IS our country now, formerly ruled and now retired by the aging baby-boomers and their parents who are still alive.

Most of the complaining and belief our country is heading into socialism or isn't upholding the constitution is done by those 50+. Us in our 20's do feel our country is slowly being torn apart...not by what the elderly describe...but by what the elderly have caused; high levels of greed, constantly wanting taxes to stay low (when cost of living has sky-rocketed)...and all this includes your SS income and medicare we all pay to help keep you alive past your 60's. There's a reason our avg lifespan in the US is 80 years. Technology and money. Our healthcare system is expensive as hell...but mostly cause people want to live longer, healthier, and happier lives. My grandmother is above 80 herself, and honestly, it's expensive as hell to keep people that age alive. There's a cost to want to live longer. There's a cost to keeping you happy with anti-depressants, or focused with meds for ADHD and so on. Yet nobody wants to pay for it????? But of course, at age 65...the last thing you want to do is agree your life has become too expensive...so you pine the government for their help. And whine and gripe when your taxes go up to help pay for the local school system that's paying for your grandchildren's education to keep our country competitive with other industrialized nations. All the while I've spent my entire life (yes, only a third of yours) observing this happening.

This is what we see; us Millennials or Generation Y-ers or whatever you wanna call it. I was 4 years old when the Berlin Wall fell. I barely remember Reagan and was in early grade school through the 1st Bush years. Some weren't even alive till the Bush years 89-93. We see our parents and grandparents still hang onto beliefs and feelings from the Cold War. I'm sure the US winning vs the Soviets in the '80 Olympics was a great day for US pride. But us Millennials have all grown up into adults now...most in the post-cold war era. It seems our American "pride" somehow needed to continue after the Soviet Union fell, which not so ironically turned into arrogance. I see arrogance everywhere in our country. And I believe, it's a big reason we were attacked on 9/11. The belief nobody can harm us, we will never fall, we are #1 and will flaunt it in every way we can. But we aren't the leading nation anymore. I think our generation knows this. We are a big reason Obama was elected. If we feel we need to adopt more European values to help our country move forward, why are you stopping us? If this is where it needs to go to remain a super-power; to WORK WITH other nations and raise our own taxes (aren't we the least taxed industrialized nation anyway?)?? Then we see this. Because this is all we know.

When $1 American meant $2.29 Canadian...and now $1 American means $1.40 Canadian within a 20 year span...WE see this. When my dollar was worth half (literally) of a British pound when I lived in London summer of '08...there's something that needs to be done. We need to play catch-up...and lead by example in other areas that allow us to; our technology. If that means your job you held for 40 years erases itself to make way for new jobs in new fields with different technologies...let it happen. It HAS to happen if you want our generation to carry us into the future, all while retaining our super-power status.

I apologize for the long post. And I know I missed a few things here and there. But finally, Individual, let me ask you...if you feel more free in some Asian country (I still don't see why specifying which nation it is, unless it's illegal to do so, is such a big deal) because they don't try to label themselves as free...are you saying people would be more "free" here in the States if we stopped labeling it as such? Basically you're saying your democratic-socialist state is more free just because they aren't using the word free or freedom. Don't get it. And you don't pay property taxes, school taxes etc because you are taxed overall at 15%. How is the tax enforced and taken out if there's no sales tax or yearly income tax? I'd do the research myself...but your stubbornness to reveal which nation it is prevents me from doing so.

 

No, I just mean in the context of the war.

Of course you should focus primarily on your local politics. However, Bush seems to be in the category of Hitler or Stalin, a world evil. You guys don't focus your finger on him, I like it (I really like it), I just think it's odd =P

But yes, I think you are right that British pride has much to do with it. I wish Americans still had that sorta pride.

 

That's because us Brits are odd.

 

Then, it does not forbid social programs as you stated. You're just like your counterpart conservatives here in the states. You pull out the constitution as a means of demonizing anyone who disagrees with you. This is an old argument that's getting a bit boring. You think you know more than the Supreme Court judges.

This is so sad. The most important aspects of life are taxes, taxes taxes and money.

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My concerns are primarily that my leaders focus on the human condition as opposed to the corporate condition.

Medical care is great here, for the lucky few who have unfettered access to it. People die because they cannot get through the door. This is the result of a national emphasis on corporate profits as opposed to human conditions.

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Love the Stones, but Moody Blues and Pink Floyd are my favorites. Guess I like colors

I have 2 daughters about your age and I have confidence that your generation will succeed.

Alabama is a prime example of how this attitude plays out.

My grandfather lived to be 95 without expensive health care. Today, many people do not know how to stay healthy. The one benefit to a national health care system is preventing those expensive treatments, and consults with primary care doctors can be a learning experience that promotes health and reduces cost.

At the turn of the century I was diagnosed with a heart condition. I was given medicine for a year and the condition was gone. This cost the V.A. a few hundred dollars instead of a couple of hundred thousand dollars had I not been diagnosed and treated.

A healthy population also means higher productivity in the work place.

I liked Obama the first time I heard him speak. I have to admit that his color was also appealing. We needed a "different" face in the White House and a black or female one would signify a definite change in America's direction.

I like European values. I like the E.U.,it signifies a unity of nations, not conflict as we have had in the past.

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This thread is epic, argument is already deep so I'm not going to jump in, one quick side note though.

Baby boomers still run this country. Literally in the fact most politicians in high places are baby boomers, but also in the fact due to their numbers they make up a very large voting demographic and more importantly, the 18-26 year old crowd is the least likely to vote.

 

Contrary to statistics from the last election. Not all of us vote, but when we are addressed as we were in 2008, it became about us. It was part of Obama's brilliantly run campaign; reach out to the younger voters. The GOP has a harder time of doing this. We as the younger generation have a lot more power than we think, and have just about the same amount of knowledge as the older generations. Just because you're older doesn't mean you are more educated about politics or world knowledge. Many of us are starting to study abroad for at least a semester, or have been outside our own country. Many of the baby-boomers and older don't share the same numbers or education level. We have more world knowledge overall as we have been connected to most of the world for most of our lives. But I also hate the 18-26 range as it really should be 18-35 or something like that. You could be a Millennial who is turning 31 or 32 years old this year.

And JackFlash...we see eye to eye, my friend. Cheers.

 

are u defining 'hipsters' as those who eat tofu and wear non-perscription glasses? other than their bumper stickers which really can't encompass an entire political belief, what tells u that these ppl are 'socialists'? these ppl you speak of sound more like upper-middle class, to afford bars and cafes. the real hipsters would be the ones sitting in the park with a guitar! the socialists would be promoting their beliefs outside of the private sector...maybe that's just my opinion.

 

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with stupid socialists who think gentrification is good, but I can assure you that most socialists do not think that way.

 

I sometimes wonder if a large segment if the population that identifies with conservatism doesn't just automatically figure anyone who aspires to be a little more clean, educated, fair-minded, well spoken or civil is automatically a socialist.

 

LATFH.com

 

I would think gentrification is antithetical to Socialism. The Socialists would want to improve the living conditions of the slums for the ones who live there. It's the conservative Capitalists who buy up and rebuild run down neighborhoods for profit.

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The ability of the corporate state to pacify the country by extending credit and providing cheap manufactured goods to the masses is gone. The jobs we are shedding are not coming back. Economists tacitly talk about a “jobless recovery.” - - What the fuck is that exactly??

The belief that democracy lies in the choice between competing brands and the accumulation of vast sums of personal wealth at the expense of others is exposed as a fraud. :icon_bs:
Freedom can no longer be associated with the free market. The travails of the poor are rapidly becoming the travails of the middle class, especially as unemployment insurance runs out.
And class warfare, once buried under the happy illusion that we were all going to enter an age of prosperity with unfettered capitalism, is returning with a vengeance.

America is sinking under trillions in debt it can never repay and stays afloat by frantically selling about *$2 billion in Treasury bonds a day to the Chinese. It saw almost *3 million people lose their homes in 2009- to foreclosure or bank repossessions – nearly *8,000 people a day – and stands idle as they are joined by another 2and half million people this year

Middle class??- -Not to worry. In the years to come there will be no middle class, at least not one that is similar to the middle class of today
'
We substituted the illusion of growth and prosperity for real growth and prosperity. America’s most dangerous enemies are not Islamic radicals but those who sold us the perverted ideology of free-market capitalism and globalization. They fucked with the very foundations of our society.
The middle class*
In the 17th century these speculators would have been hung. Today they run the government and consume billions in taxpayer subsidies.

As a veteran who is now 60-the feeling that all was for naught, is maddening
-thanks for the venting space---
jack

****- statistics from article by chris hedges in the whole brain catalog***

 

Word, bro! :iagree: