I cant believe this BP shit..

i dont disagree with the idea, i just look at things as they are

as you pointed out consumerism runs rampant, most people dont care about anything other than getting their cheap tvs, cars, gas, etc etc etc. and how convenient it is to throw away your old shit and buy something new to keep up with trends

i have two coffee tables that i made myself from scrap wood found on craigslist. the things are damn solid, look good, and were for the most part free. looking around my house pretty much everything else i own has been purchased second hand or bartered for, except for some dvds and my glass

unlike a lot of people when something i have breaks, i either fix it or get it fixed. i dont throw it away and buy a new one. most of the food i buy is in its raw state and i cook meals, i dont buy many tv dinners and hot pockets and ready made meals as that just adds more steps between harvesting the food and putting it on my plate

all the packaging for things i buy is recycled after being used, plastic wood cardboard etc. i have a compost pile in the backyard for most of my food waste. there is almost nothing coming from my household that gets put in a landfill which again takes more energy to transport and deposit

so honestly i think i live pretty envirofriendly, and im not an extremest hippy, i just live the way i do because its a far less expensive way to live, and really is not that hard at all

in this day in age with places like ikea where people drop cash on overpriced junk furniture so their living room looks like a art gallery, go through a new cell phone or appliance every year so they have the newest gadget out there, i dont see a lot of hope for things getting better. the way people live is the biggest threat to the environment, and until that changes alternate fuel and materials aren't going to accomplish much

just the way i see it...

 

mass toilet flush mississippi river valley.. srsly..

 

Most of what you say is right, but that part... is fucked man....

Alternative fuels and materials are part of that change... To sit there and say, they don't matter because nothing will change is... well, fucked...

 

i'm pissed i can't +rep this post twice.

almost 2 months and still NO SOLUTIONS.

if i can go to jail for eating mushrooms that grow naturally in my area, i don't see why the CEO of BP isn't getting sodomized by every prison inmate in the united states with an STI.

 

if you aint getting the horsepower out of your engine, your engine may be running on ducks..

 

your absolutely correct, alternate fuels and materials are important. i may have expressed my opinion a bit inaccurately about their importance. i wasn't trying to say alternate fuels/materials are useless, just that the root of the problem, as I see it at least, isn't the fuel or materials we use, its the overuse and misuse of said products.

i just get the idea that the goal of a lot of alternative energy proponents is to find a way to continue things as usual, perpetuating a consume consume throw away lifestyle, where as in my opinion our first goal should be reducing our consumption to a point where even with current technology we can sustain ourselves comfortably without destroying OUR environment, which is basically what people mean. we want an environment that sustains US as a species. there is no universally "right" environment, as life is present and abundant is many areas completely inhospitable to us

 

Conservation should definitely be a a big part of what a person does, but whether they (as an example) use one tree worth of paper a year, or 100 trees worth of paper, it would still be better if they instead used the equivalent from hemp fibre as opposed to trees.

The same applies to anything... it would be best if we stopped wasting shit... but changing the shit we waste, to something that doesn't cause as much harm when we waste it is a good thing as well.

*this is the second time I typed this, I hit post and it lost everything and told me my message had to be at least one letter... lol So, if it seems slightly garbled, blame it on that and me being too lazy to go back and re-read it again...

 

The planet is fucked because people are fucked. You know how I know that people are fucked? Because I see them buying plastic bottles of water.

I mean, water is FREE where I live. It comes right out of the tap - no coins required. But people not only prefer to PAY for water, they then throw away the plastic bottle.These plastic bottles are being manufactured by the millions with no end in sight. Not only are they in the world permanently, they require oil to make the damn things.

I probably consume less product than 95 percent of the population but I can't encourage others to be like me because our society would crash and burn from the resulting economic collapse.

 

see this is a perfect example of how complicated the issues surrounding environmental impact of various industries and materials are

wheen trees are cut down, the main product is lumber. in the process of making lumber there is waste in the form of bark, sawdust, chip, etc. trees are not cut down to make paper, paper is made from something that otherwise would be thrown away. wood products such as fiberboard and particle/chip board which account for most of the wood in modern day homes are also made from lumber production waste, so trees are not suffering to produce this stuff

solid wood is very hard to replace for structural purposes. composite wood materials, while having their uses, are weaker, and fall apart quickly in the presence of moisture, even with modern chemicals to increase the water resistance of them. this leaves solid wood as pretty much the only material for structural components

roof rafters, floor beams, wall studs, etc are almost always made of solid wood. a roof leak on a house with solid wood beams isn't a huge deal once repaired. i had a horrible roof leak in my house years back that soaked through 2 floors and rotted tons of the drywall off the ceiling. yet the roof rafters and floor beams are still perfectly fine. if those rafters or beams would have been composite, the house could have come falling down at worst, or at best i would have had an extremely costly project to replace rafters and beams, using more resources in the process.

hemp cannot be used to replace solid wood, as its only useful for its fiber, in making composite materials. these composite materials are weaker and heavier than regular wood, and on top of that use nasty binders to make them into a solid large piece of wood, such as formaldehyde based resins, and tons of other nasty chemicals used to manufacture it. then there is the fact that homes burn, and a house that uses mostly composite materials releases far more toxic chemicals if caught on fire than one of solid wood. when the wood is disposed of the same risk is there with the chemicals. you cant compost composite wood products safely, as these chemicals will leech into the ground.

which is why i think proper use and management of current materials is more important that coming up with new ones. use solid wood products where they are necessary (beams studs and rafters) and other materials in other places.

please dont think im trying to pick a fight about this, im just trying to demonstrate how complex a very simple idea really is. it seems easy to just stop chopping the forest down and use faster growing stuff like hemp or bamboo, but what advantage does it really offer? not much in my opinion, it has its places but it can't replace what trees are actually cut down for.

and when talking about logging, if done properly it keeps the forest healthy. i saw first hand the devastation of the yellowstone fires even years after it ended. obviously there were many factors that contributed to the fire, but when forests become extremely overcrowded and dense with growth, fires spread more rapidly and become harder to control. they even set small fires to thin out the forest in an attempt to stop massive wildfires. logging is not allowed in yellowstone, which one could argue contributed to the factors that caused the fire to cause so much damage.

its another example of how inaccurate portrayals of certain industries and practices sway public opinion in a way that doesn't make sense. just like people being terrified of nuclear power, a lot of people think modern day forest management is just like the old ways of devastating clear cutting and slash and burn. even though clear cutting still happens, this is what i mean when i say manage current materials. stop clear cutting completely, but still take advantage of logging in a responsible manner

so back to your comment, why do you think its better to grow hemp instead of harvest forests? and again i really dont want you to take this as argumentative, as thats not my intention at all. i really think intelligent conversation is one of the most important things to solve these problems, so im happy to have a civil conversation, even if we don't necessarily agree

 

well tap water isnt exactly free, you (or at least people here in the US) still have to pay a water bill, and a sewer bill that is dependent on how much water you use, but i totally get what you mean. paying money to power a bottling plant, and ship something to a store, and manufacture oil based materials to get something you can simply get at home for a lower price is just fucking dumb

on top of that, most bottled water drinkers think its special or something. the vast majority of the bottled water is just filtered tap water, exactly what you would be drinking at home with a brita or pur for far less money

i can however see the use for bottled water in some cases. if your local water supply has fluoride in it, and you are one of those that think its a poison (never got into that controversy myself) then bottled water would make sense as most filters do not remove it. plus chlorine which some water supplies have takes several filtering passes to change much.

then there is the evidence that suggest the plastic can leech toxic chemicals into the water. so now people are paying more money for water that not only isn't better than filtered tap, but also potentially contains toxic chemicals!

but you know, people dont give a shit. they want to carry around their little bottle of dasani water like its a fashion accessory

 

i completely get what perspective you are coming from... i don't fear death either... just a part of the natural flows and cycles... civilizations rise and the fall... earth will shake off the parasites if they become less than symbiotic and actually become a problem for Gaia... which, let's face it, has happened

in the same vein.... i think it possible that it IS Gaia who allowed the explosion to occur, indirectly, through the greed and arrogance of the companies involved... form my perspective we are all one afterall?

yes, the disaster could have been avoided, but it wasn't... did i read somewhere that it was the trapped methane that caused it to blow in the first place? Man is a part of nature, whether he/she likes it or not and so is all technology that has sprung from mankind... again, it depends on ones perspective as to whether it was bad choice after bad choice... all is exactly as it should be... BECAUSE we made those choices, then a quickeneing in her (Gaias) shake-off response was inevitable...

yes! and i, as a human, hope that we DO take using alternative much more seriously... i also hope it is not too late... but i also accept that it may be too late already, and the culling of mankind could easily be picking up speed so that Gaia can save herself...

yes... and as we certainly can't persuade the profiteers to take a cut, (because let's face it, they have steadfastly refused) nature will do that for them and for us... if we survive it at all...

shit there are so many posts to respond to... i hope i have come across as intended... basically, short synopsis...

yes the spill is bollocks and an outrage, but could well be the beginning of the end of mankind as he is now and because the majority of mankind has not listened and responded to Gaias needs for balance, then Gaia will take and make balance for herself... i hope it isn't too late, but seriously suspect that it is... :coffee:

 

:iagree:

and i've been trying to pos rep you, but it won't let me... will do it when it does let me... :coffee:

 

To be fair, there isn't much he can do now. I also think daily operational control has been taken out of his hands.
I still think he is entitled to time off and a personal life.

You've never been to the Isle of White have you...?

Stinkfoot, I agree with you. You pretty much summed up how I feel about this.
I doubt you want to smash Obama's smug face in with a baseball bat, though.

 

earth will shake off the parasites... thats why fleas, tapeworms, mosquitos, etc are still around? what makes humans are more parasitic than any other species? all species on earth just fight to stay alive and reproduce, just like humans. if any other species had the opportunity to dominate the planet in the way we have, they would.

a symbiotic relationship is not positive or negative, us humans are symbiotic with all sorts of species. we have relationships with bees to provide us with honey, relationships with plants to provide us with building material, relationships with cows to give us milk and beef. that's all symbiosis is, a relationship between living things.

what is this balance that you speak of? nature has NEVER been in balance, thats why it changes.

if nature was in balance then it would be static and continue on exactly the same. it doesn't, and never has, because there has never been any such balance. things are constantly changing in response to the random events on the planet. balance would be every species living in a perfectly orchestrated cycle where populations remain the same size, no new species evolve, territory never changes, and nothing ever goes extinct. balance is absolute equality, something that has never existed on this planet

before man ever walked the earth species killed, took advantage of their environment, made other species extinct, and died. that is exactly what man does today.

but that's just my opinion, what do you consider nature being "in balance" and what does the human race do that causes it to be out of balance?

 

i also refer to culling... we have knocked it right out of balance and nature strives to find the balance always, and there is always something to tip the scales again... and again, nature will find the balance... for example, when there is a war and the majority of babies born are then male, balancing the imbalance of not enough males to go round... i do think it is all as it should be... if we lived more in harmony with nature, then the qualities of our lives would be better though, don't you think? i mean, there is exploitation, then there is greedy and extreme exploitation without regards to our enviroment and/or other humans.... n'est-ce pas? i think that answers your question? get my drift?

 

Because ALL of what I have quoted, and a good portion of what I left out, is nothing but pure 100% bullshit...

I don't know where you get your info from, but you had better stop talking about any of this and start doing some research.

Composite wood products are STRONGER then solid lumber, they can and are being used for EVERY purpose that solid wood products can and are.

You get 3 or 4 times (let me repeat that again for you) THREE OR FOUR TIMES the amount of fibre from an acre of hemp then you do from an acre of trees.

When houses burn down you are afraid that the toxins released from composite wood products will be bad?

Compared to what? Definitely not compared to any normal house being burnt down.

You say you aren't doing this to start a fight...

Prove it by going and checking your facts before you throw them at me.

 

Gliocladium roseum, is capable of producing gases..

BP Bans Pot! ..

 

Thats actually a really interesting thing, I had heard of it before but never knew the name. Thanks man!

http://www.physorg.com/news144958975.html

They will have to pry the joint out from between my cold, dead lips.

 

there alot of stuff going on with fungi, and algae .. shit can grow like bonkers under the right conditions, of course space is needed, this again creates a problem for locations of site to develop it ..

 

There is some interesting work going on with lots of various fungi and algae... Making hydrogen, directly producing power, making biodiesel, and so on...

If we make it another 100 years, we will hopefully be looking back on these days of oil dominance as another dark age of humankind...

But I wouldn't bet on us making it that far...