How To Stop The Alt-Right

Eye

Sorry but to whom you are born has the greatest impact on your life than virtually any other.

Basically social mobility has pretty much stagnated in the US meaning that if you were born poor you are likely to die poor and if born rich you’ll die rich.

http://www.businessinsider.com/social-mobility-is-a-myth-in-the-us-2013-3?IR=T
http://socialab.net/2014/07/30/us-income-mobility-is-stagnant-and-worse-than-europes-2/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/economic-mobility-hasnt-changed-in-a-half-century-in-america-economists-declare/2014/01/22/e845db4a-83a2-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html?utm_term=.ee25585d6738

 

I saw President Obama on television yesterday, speaking about race. Comparing northerners and southerners.

 

To me many if not most of the problems the US and other areas of the globe are suffering at the moment could be lessened through targeted assistance, socially directed legislation and a distributive economic system alongside the setting up of socially directed global institutions designed to hem in and counter the economic globalisation that was set up by neoliberal policies over the last 30 plus years.

The problem in a US context is that many Americans especially the National Neoliberals that seem to be riding high at the moment and of which the alt-right are just a part are opposed to most if not all the things in that list.

Small government mentality would rule out socially directed legislation and free market ideology public assistance and a distributive economic system, preferring aiding the more advantaged in their society.

As to joining in internationally many seem to be isolationists and at least some seem to think international institutions are part of some new World Order Conspiracy.

So for the foreseeable future I fear the majority of people Americans and others in the world will have to carry on suffering.

 

The terrorists are only following their holy book. Anyone who doesn't is either a non observing Muslim or an infidel.

 

Handy how they can be disaggregated, as you did earlier, and presented without regard to their representation in the overall population. Any way you slice it, together or separate, Hispanics and African-Americans are substantially over-represented among the poor, by your own figures. So this illustrates why there is still concern about these minorities and their condition. Your "statistics' make no sense apart from the context of the overall representation of these racial components in the total U.S. population. Any serious study of the history of African-Americans would note the history of slavery and the barriers to assimilation posed by conspicuous "otherness". To a lesser extent, differences in appearance and culture likewise set Hispanics apart and make them subject to stereotyping. That's the way people think.

The unfounded notion that only white people can be racists seems to be held mostly by a relatively few pseudo-intellectuals who frequent college campuses and social media sites. At least that's my impression, since I don't think there are reliable studies or data on the matter. I definitely agree that anyone who hates white people just cuz they're white is a racist, pure and simple-- black, red, yellow or green. You must live in a different universe than I do, because here in Oklahoma white racism is alive, well, and unmistakable, in daily conversations and practices. I have a friend from the northwestern part of he state who had never seen an African American until he was a teenager. They were the subject of legend, and the legends were mostly unfavorble. There's still a hill outside of town in Woodward called "****** Hill" because a single African-American once lived there. I don't think people who use that term give it a second thought; that's just what the place is called. Another friend had to consciously re-train himself not to use the "N word" or to make racist jokes about African-Americans after he acquired an African-American son-in-law and grandson. One of my other white friends had a similar conversion experience after his daughter had a child by an undocumented Mexican worker. He still hasn't given up the constant jokes about blacks, most of which would be unprintable even on this site. That is not to say, however, that all or most white people are racist in the sense of being consciously hostile toward racial minorities, quite the contrary! But without affirmative action programs, most would continue hiring the way they always did, and shy away from those minorities because they have a bad reputation--unless it's for a menial position and they'll do work white folks won't.

Affirmative action wasn't officially meant to give preference to racial minorities, only to require effort to make sure they're notified of the job and given serious consideration. But everybody knows it hasn't worked out that way. Despite EEOC's subtle distinction between "quotas" and "goals", there's pressure to make sure minorities are hired, and in the real world this can mean giving them preference over non-minorities as long as they are considered "qualified". Understandably, this makes whites feel they're at a competitive disadvantage at times in an area that is majorly salient to them: their jobs. Although social theorists may think they should simply "suck it up" for the sake of progress, human nature says otherwise. Ergo, blue collar white nationalism, identity consciousness, or whatever your preferred euphemism is for a sense of race-based grievance--not necessarily consciously identified as such but articulated by some who post on this thread.

 

Yea, OK, I have been to Oklahoma a few times and the rural stripe is very different from what I see in the "Deep South". When I moved to Atlanta in the late 90s I expected the worst. I was afraid my kids would see hideous racists beating poor black people in the streets, nightly cross burnings that could be seen from traffic cameras and of course klansmen directing traffic. To this day the most blatant racism and bigotry I hear aloud comes from black people and this hate is squarely directed at white people. Even the local paper stirs this shit up needlessly though that tapered off when Cynthia Tucker left for DC to try to sponge some Obama glory.

Back in the early 80s I was on a bus from San Diego to Ohio (the Navy gave me enough to fly, but cash is cash). We stopped for dinner in Altus and I went into a hotel to avoid yet another diner meal. So I'm in the lobby and this amazing looking girl is just standing there looking amazing, so naturally I gave her the eye. She smiled, but not with enough come hither for me to react, so I didn't give it another thought. But like seconds later I have this OLD guy in my face. He looked like Colonel Sanders on meth and was screaming at me for looking at her in the thickest drawl I heard till Paula Deen happened".

I'm trying to be polite in my confusion and he's all up in my face. Nobody in the hotel is doing a thing about it and I started to apologize and beg out of the place being a lone sailor in an unfamiliar town. But he just kept dialing up the shit. Finally I said "Look man, if you don't want people looking at your granddaughter, don't dress her like a hooker". I thought he was going to have a heart attack. It was hard not to laugh as he went from red to purple. Then he demands we "step outside". I'm fresh out of boot camp in the best shape of my life and have a foot of height on this little fool. I would have wasted him. And probably ended up in jail which would have made me late for my duty station and arriving on report.

Finally a cop showed up and defused the little bastard. Apparently someone behind the desk made the call and this little tool was something of a regular. I've never since encountered such a textbook super-hick. Not even in Alabama! Which is why I think Obama's recent anti-southerner rhetoric is both childish and needlessly divisive. I have to actually seek out the hard core southern stereotypes he laments. Which makes me wonder if Obama is one of those people who gets their facts from old movies like Mississippi Burning and Deliverance.

I still think we all got along so much better in the 70s. Which is why I think all this recent uptick in hatred around the country has been created artificially. It did not come about organically. I thank God that on the surface and at the street level I rarely see the kinds of shit the media swears is happening left and right (like the artificially-created resurgence of "The KKK" as an effort to inject shame onto the white population for shit they didn't do).

I rarely post links to examples in the media because I don't fully "trust" ANY media outlet. I've noticed some folks really rely heavily on their posted links as opposed to an actual opinion. If I heard it on Blaze, I won't be inclined to take it any more seriously hearing it here. Politically I don't know where that leaves me. I grew up in far left Marin County under two hard left parents (Dad was an artist, Mom was a paid protester) and somehow emerged as a centrist.. Jane, my wife, lampoons me as a "Liberal-Republican" so I call her a Conservative Democrat. What's funny is that those things actually used to exist. Before all this hard line polarization that crept in during the 90s.

What I dislike the very most though is the notion that some people have "good reason" to hate people today for shit that other people did long ago. I can't imagine using a history book as my basis for hating a modern, living person. It's so preposterous on its face. Should I be angry with modern day citizens of Rome? And yet, that's exactly where we are. Some Americans seem to have figured out how to express the "good" kind of hatred. Or they seem to feel they have a right to hate people for the audacity of being "white" (whatever that even means).

Which sucks for everyone. Like Butthead said, "I don't like stuff that sucks".

 

You seem to be reacting to irrational but "all too human" excesses. Every group has its nuts. Sometimes the ideological "red hot" can be unreasonable. I recall being in a bus when an young woman entered and grabbed the rail in front of me. There were no empty seats. In keeping with my upbringing, I got up and offered her mine. She glared at me and kept on standing. So I sat down, majorly pissed and feeling victimized and humiliated by feminism run amok. But I don't think it's reasonable to project this onto feminists as a whole.(although I no longer offer my seat or hold the door for women unless they're older). For generations, people in my part of the country had a hard time letting go of the Civil War and a hostility to Yankees. The sad but true reality is that these historic memories are politically useful in forging tribal identities. So are the tales of feminists gone berserk, or unjustified confrontation over oogling the ladies.

 

Being irrational is one of those things that divides us from the beasts. So I have great respect for it as an aggregate of the human experience. Same as music, cooking, humor and homosexuality. I freakin LOVE humanity!

 

Funny. I think of being rational as our distinguishing characteristic as a species. In the Nichomachaean Ethic, Aristotle defines humans as rational animals which add "a rational principle ( λόγον ἔχον)"to the instinctive life we share with other animals. In The Politics, he acknowledges the bestial side of humans, but tells us [H]e who bids the law rule may be deemed to bid God and Reason alone rule, but he who bids man rule adds an element of the beast; for desire is a wild beast, and passion perverts the minds of rulers, even when they are the best of men." I agree.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I moved down here in Florida. And I'm black and live in a white neighborhood. It turns out none of that stuff happens around these here parts.

 

We're rational until we're starving. Then we're transformed into a predatory nightmare. We humans arrogantly think of ourselves as enlightened and even as "advanced" species and yet, we are ruled by some of our most primitive needs and revert to primitive habits almost instantly, especially when surprised.

Sure, we're clever, but we're still using brains made for living in fields and forests. Technology fools us into thinking we're advancing, but we are not. At least not in several lifetimes. None of us will live to see any measure of human evolution. Cultural, sure, but human advancement is very very slow. And cultural advancement can be undermined by human efforts.

 

Imagine how I felt moving here only to discover that I'm prejudiced toward white southerners!

 

I've lived in the south my whole life and never encountered racism first hand until I visited NYC a few years ago.

 

This thing we laughingly call the "self" seems to be a bunch of module and sub-routines cobbled together. (Pinker, How The Mind Works, The Blank Slate; Eggerman, Incognito.) E.O. Wilson tells us that somewhere in human evolution, probably with homo habilis humans developed an ethical module oriented toward group survival in addition to the pre-existing module oriented toward self-survival (The Meaning of Human Existence). Human existence is an on-going struggle between the two, expressed in the Christian doctrine of original sin. Empathy and reciprocal altruism (which are actually pre-human instincts) help us work for the good of others. Unfortunately, they seem to be strongest toward humans we are related to, are most similar to, or are tied to in communal relationships. As human polities expanded beyond bands and tribes, they had to meet the challenge of expanding the focus of ethical relationships. This has been the task of the great world religions and ethical systems, on which civilization depends. You're correct that when our sense of individual or immediate group survival is challenged, we easily revert to primitive habits of tribalism and self-preservation at all costs. Demagogues like Trump are masters of playing on primitive fears and bestial instincts to manipulate people to their advantage. in Jungian terms, he put us in touch with our Shadow and gave it permission to play. Or as Aristotle would put it, we put the Beast in our highest office.

 

Imagine how I feel living in a Red state surrounded by true believing Trumpians! Voting for me was an irrational act as far as the presidency was concerned, since a Democrat has a snowball's chance in hell of getting any electoral votes. One of the reasons I like these forums is that I can express my opinions and find some fellow progressives from time to time. Around here, it would be pissing in the wind.

 

Not even going to read any of the previous comments.

Milo for life.

 

Nothing like an open mind!

 

Hah, well played!

 

I don't think rationality exists. Our whole lives are founded in uncertainty. Think of the trauma we experience when we learn that we will inevitably die. Think of how many questions we have as to our fundamental place in the grand scheme of life and the universe. Faced with these conditions, I find it hard to believe that anyone behaves in a purely rational manner. Our emotions, wants, needs, and desires underlie everything we do, from the most competitive sport to the most logical computational problem.

As much as the severity of our emotions creates a crisis, we are in a crisis of the intellect. What our hearts tell us and what our minds are able to reason, for as long as reason has existed, have been two separate things. Instead of bending to the will of the heart, the heart bends to the will of reason. And now humanity's reason points to uncertainty. Our world has grown beyond our capacity to contain it in a nice, neat package. So we won't be able to put our foot down when Trump has crossed the line. If Trump and his ilk start taking people out one by one, we will have intellectual doubt as to whether it really matters. We don't know if our own individual lives really matter. So as much as Trump speaks to the beast within, I believe he speaks to our rationality and our reason.

People may say they know their lives matter, but trust me, that seed of doubt has been sewn and sewn thoroughly.

At some point we must draw the line in the sand and dictate what can and cannot be. The people truly do have all the power, after all, when they make a stand. At the moment we're mucking around in the mire of uncertainty. Each little pinprick seems as much a profound existentialist dilemma as a direct insult to our honor. But look at what was achieved at Standing Rock. It was great, but still it wasn't enough. The oil companies will be back, trying to bully us into submission. They don't get it. They see our hearts are fickle, and believe they are theirs to prey upon. If just once, just once, we all stood together, then we wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense that we're all sick and tired of dealing with anymore. We must, once and for all, stand together and display the true power of the masses, so that those men who think they dictate the world cower like the subservient dogs they truly are.