How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Oh yeah, and can you stop fighting? Please?

 

I may have wronged, but it was my own mistake. I accept that whole heartedly, and am prepared to grow and mature on my own. The only savior ultimately is myself. Only I can choose to change and grow. I won't project my inner demons and ignorance, they are very much a part of me, and I will experience them, live them, outgrow them into higher levels of being. I have an inner light, just like the rest of you.

 

Lovely.

Now and then you may find you need help. Please ask.

 

Oh, I do. "No man is an Island". There are plenty of things I learn, experiences, writings, etc. It has helped point the way inward, and yet outward at the same time.

To devote oneself to either extreme is in a way.. narcissism.

 

The problem is that epiphany belongs to a religious cult that teaches that baptism saves. They take the emphasis off what the bible says saves, Jesus Christ and try to put in on a work. Baptism is NOT repentance. Repentance is a change of mind toward God. She changes her story now as well I see. She just said that the thief on the cross was not saved, I believe and now she is saying that the people in paradise were saved.

This definition is from STRONG'S one of the world's leading authorities on what these words mean. It is like telling webster's dictionary that he is wrong and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Repentence is the word:

3340. metanoew metanoeo, met-an-o-eh'-o
Search for 3340 in KJV

It means:

from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Epiphany is outright lying about what repentance is and I can't allow her to do that.
Repentance is in the old testiment also and there was no baptism in the oldtestiment.

Here is repentance in it's proper context.

Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Repentence means to turn away. When we repent, we turn away from our sins and reliance upon anything other than Jesus Christ for Savation and we turn to Jesus Christ alone to save us, not baptism, or being good, or anything else. Epiphany is in a very small minority and does NOT represent how true Christians believe that they are saved. She is saying that 95% of the verses that mention salvation are wrong and she is right. She is twisting a few scriptures up to say what she wants them to. Again she said that salvation is NOT a charitable act, which contradicts what the bible says as usual.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

She would have you believe otherwise. Just read through the bible and see for yourself that the bible plainly says that it is NOT of works.


5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The washing here is referring to Christ washing us, not us washing ourselves. The washing of Regeneration. Not by works of righteousness which we have done. Also, He renewed us with the Holy Ghost. We receive the Holy Ghost BEFORE we are baptized, because we are saved BEFORE baptism.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(KJV)

 

Traci never said that, salvation is through Christ alone, when you come to faith in Yeshua, admit you broke torah (law) and accept Christ you die of self, baptism is symbolic of that and commanded for belivers to do when they get saved,
Baptism of the spirt is required for salvation (thats not water baptism), speaking in tounges IS a sign of that since ONLY someone who has recieved the spirit can speak in tounges (although tounges is not a requirement of salvation, recieving the Spirit is)
calling Traci a liar is just wrong, and saying she belongs to a cult is just wanting to hurt her and thats not right, she believes in BIBLICAL salvation through Christ Yeshua


lemme comment on some other things in the thread in the same post
yes the Bible has been edited a lot (especially the King James version) thats why i wont read the KJV, its been edited mostly by the catholic church and martin luthor wanting to add anti-semanism to, which as a Jewish believer i find appualing, people have tried to twist the word of G-d to suit their own purposes and thats so wrong. now to the earlier posts, we can debate here, we can discuss here, but outright insulting someone elses beliefs are wrong, granted not everyone here will agree with eachother but we can atleast have the common decency to discuss and debate peacefully, saying you dont agree is ok but trashing and mocking others is just wrong and so immature

 

Traci never said that, salvation is through Christ alone, when you come to faith in Yeshua,

Tracy DID say that. She said that baptism was repentence and if you don't get baptized, then you aren't saved because you haven't repented. I'm sorry if I used too strong of a word. I won't call you a liar tracy, I will just that, that is a lie. I believe that you truly believe what you are saying, so YOU are not lying, but I do believe that what you said was a lie. I am getting tired of epiphany being rude to me, telling me that I am not saved. I know what the word says and I know the Lord. No one is going to tell me otherwise. Even the "tongues" crowd will agree that not all believer's speak in tongues. I personally don't believe in tongues, but I am not going to say that you aren't a Christian if you DO speak in tongues. I don't appreciate her saying that I am not a Christian because I don't speak in tongues. I have told her that the only experience that I have had with tongues was demonic. I was sleeping and I heard a demonic voice speaking in tongues, when I woke up, there was a guy on the radio talking plain english, in the same voice, talking about how he was an alcoholic who had been delivered from alcoholism by the Lord. I believe that that man had demons and they were affecting me in my sleep. I am not saying that all tongues are demonic, I have NEVER said that. I personally don't believe that tongues are for today.

 

God told me not to get baptized.

Hopefully the retards out there will not get their panties in a bunch and start talking about boogiemen that exist only in their mind.

 

Love God, Love your neighbors, Love your enemies. Love all sentient beings while you're at it. If you do not do this, then it doesn't matter what you understand, believe or practice. Your obsession with the package prevents you from appreciating the gift.

 

Young children love wrapping paper more than the gift sometimes.

 

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but I do not belong to a cult. I belong to a church that reiterates the teachings and commands that Christ left his apostles before his ascension (on the THIRD day). A portion of those teachings being Repentance, Baptism and the Holy Spirit as part of Christ’s established salvation plan.

I said baptism alone saves where? Funny, I cannot find that statement in any posts of mine... ever.

You are lying again. Baptism is mentioned in the Old Testament. In fact, the act of ceremonial washing (in which, being symbolic for Jesus’s burial, baptism is) is demonstrated many times during the Old Testament.

"various ceremonial washings" (external regulations applying until the time of the new order) (Hebrews 9:10)

"The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean." (Hebrews 10:13)

In verse 21, there is a description of a process by which Moses "sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry." Leviticus 8:19 and 16:14, 16 provide the background for this Old Testament baptism. The priest was to dip his finger in the blood of a bull used for sacrifice, and then sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat (representing atonement). This was a ceremonial means of removing the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

In every case the process of baptism included a dipping of the instrument used to baptize into a substance such as blood or water. The instrument was then used to sprinkle the person(s) or thing(s) to be baptized. This process had the effect of identifying the substance used for the baptism with that which was baptized. As a result, the people were regarded as ceremonially cleansed by that substance. The baptism was not the dipping, but the process of dipping and sprinkling according to God’s order.

The emphasis of these Old Testament baptisms was not on the mode of baptism, but on the effect: cleansing or purification. These baptisms did not represent something that people did, but something that God did in providing a cleansing from sin and guilt. Baptisms were his means of ceremonially providing such purification.

The Lord says: "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." (Ezekiel 36:24-27).

Both water and spirit are mentioned in the verse above.

When New Testament baptisms were introduced, they were linked with these Old Testament baptisms.

"For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (1 Corinthians 10:2)

The process of baptizing is same in the New Testament baptisms as in the Old Testament baptisms, except, of course, that the only element used in New Testament baptisms was water. (Incidentally, the "much water" (or "many waters") is the "flowing water" (or "living water") mentioned in Numbers 19:17.)

In New Testament baptisms, then, the process of applying water to someone identifies the person baptized with the cleansing properties of the water. The emphasis is not on dipping or immersing (or on sprinkling or pouring), but on the process of identifying the one baptized with a cleansing provided by God himself.

When one receives New Testament baptism, that person is identified with Christ in his life, death, resurrection, and reign. (That is why the New Testament often refers to Christians as being "in Christ.") The one baptized is, by virtue of God’s covenant, identified with Christ, so that the person comes under the controlling influence of the only Redeemer of God’s elect.



Thus, Baptism is a cleansing and symbolic act of Christ's death.

Throughout the New Testament, baptism is associated with faith (Acts. 8:13, 9:18); many times its necessity is stated explicitly and at other times implicitly. Notice, for instance, Philip's encounter with the Ethiopian Eunuch: "And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, 'Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?'" (Acts 8:35-36)
The noteworthy point in this passage is the enthusiasm of the Eunuch's plea for baptism. If baptism had been a mere symbol, without any supernatural effects, or had not been required for salvation, then why does the Eunuch express such urgency for a simple ceremony? After Philip had related the Gospel, the Eunuch's first comments were 'Get me baptized!'. It appears, therefore, that Philip's Gospel message probably highly stressed the necessity for baptism. Why else would the Eunuch ask for this sacrament immediately after Philip's preaching?

"What shall we do"... this is what is asked of Peter (Acts 2:37) The question is obviously understood as applying to salvation, and therefore the Apostle's command that they go and be baptized is directed to salvation as well. The second point is even more forceful. Notice what the Apostle says is required for the forgiveness of sins: repentance and baptism. He does not say 'accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour for the forgiveness of your sins."

If baptism was not important or just a mere symbol, then why would it be the last major doctrine repeated by Christ before His ascension, both here Matthew's gospel and in Mark 16:16?

the 'sin' that 'Christians die to' is original sin, and this sin is 'wiped away' (Acts 22:16) through baptism. Paul reinforces this point, teaching that Christians "having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colosians 2:12).



"Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him (John the Baptist) in the Jordan River". (Matthew 3:6)

(They confessed AND were then baptized)

Baptism for remission:

"For the remission of sin." (Acts 2:38)

"And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’ (Acts 22:16)

"And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." (Mark 1:4)


Hence, baptism washes your sin away. It washes away the sins of the past because you are dying to the past. The Bible says that the Lord will cast our sin to the bottom of the ocean floor (notice he even used water reference in that sentence). It is washed away through baptism and forgotton.

"For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Galations 3:27)


"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ(Baptism through his name, not the titles of father, son, holy spirit) and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

"having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12)

"He saved us through the washing of rebirth (Baptism is the death before rebirth takes place) and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

Baptized for the remission of sin (Peter) is the clearest statement expressing the importance of baptism as part of the salvation plan of Jesus Christ.

YOU were the one who stated that I said baptism alone saved, not me. Please do not put words into my mouth!

Correction, I said that one must first repent and that baptism was the act of washing away sin.

This is what I have stated ALL along:

Repentance - to feel regret or contrition (WE are doing the repenting)

Remission - to release from the guilt or penalty of ( GOD is releasing us from guilt)

There is a CLEAR difference between the two.

If you believe, then you repent (You asking for forgiveness), when you repent you receive baptism for the remission of sins (God releasing us from sin) as death to the past, and you receive the Holy Spirit as the rebirth. This is the plan that was established by Jesus Christ and it is quite clear in the Bible. You can deny it up and down, but the word of God states it.

 

For the third time repentence is NOT baptism. Repentence is:

Lu 13:3 I tell <lego> you <humin>, Nay <ouchi>: but <alla>, except <ean me> ye repent <metanoeo>, ye shall <apollumi> all <pas> likewise <hosautos> perish <apollumi>.

3340. metanoew metanoeo, met-an-o-eh'-o
Search for 3340 in KJV

from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Repentence is NOT baptism as you HAVE said. We must repent to God for salvation. Not be baptized.

 

Agree, salvation comes from God and not from anyone else including his prophets.

 

This thread is why monotheistic religions are hypocritical. They feel they have to constantly go on these huge recruiting drives and anyone not with them is against them. Their one god is the be all and end all. I find it very hard to place all my chips on one number. Spread it out a little more. Not everyone out there is a bad person just because we disagree.

 

im with Traci on this one...

she, probobly many times have said [and im gonna try and get this right Epiphany]

that 3 things must be done to be saved...

Repentance [not baptism]

Baptism in water [not repentance]

and Baptism in the Holy Spirit...


these 3 things, these 3 seperate things...am i right , or at least close?

 

No, you are just what the one God made you. Nothing more, nothing less. There is only one creator that made us all, even though our parents, nations, religions, etc. were used by our creator to make us what we are today.

The people who go out actively recruiting are doing it for your own good, although maybe its not yet the time in your life to see your makers hand in all things. Only God knows the time when you will become aware of God's existence, for God has planned it out. All of the little preachers are there for your benefit, to give you some knowledge of God before you become truly aware of your God's existence.

I agree that you are not a "bad person" because you disagree, you only do what you were created to do, so there is no credit to yourself for the actions you do- all the credit is God's.

The fact that you are 'not willing to place all your chips upon' God shows that you do not know God yet. To you, many things in the world appear to be evil and impure. When you grow up and learn of your creator you will see the pureness and necessity in all things.

 

believe in what you want, dont impose your beliefs on anyone else because yours are no more verifiable than theirs. If you truely believe you are going to be rewarded with eternal glory, then live for god yourself. Dont drag others into your beliefs and lifestyle. Live for your own beliefs, and get to that eternal happiness. Whats the use in dragging others along with you, what if youre wrong, you just wasted their lives. worry about your own afterlife, i mean why not? when youre in eternal happiness, you wont care about anyone else.

 

Mine are. However, you won't know it until God teaches you.

I don't, God does.

That's wrong. You will care about others, however you will not worry about them.

 

That is exactly what I am saying

No one said it was. I said repentance was repentance and that baptism was remission.

The two words are not the same.

One is asking, the other is receiving

The Bible says repent and be baptized:


1. Repent for the sin (The prayer) - Repent

and

2. Be baptized for the releasing of the sin. (The sin being removed/symbolic death of old self) - Receive remission

By saying a prayer, you are asking for the forgiveness. By being baptized, the sin is being washed away/released. That is why the Bible states that you must do both.

When you ask someone to forgive you, do you turn around and walk away? No, you wait for their response. You do not simply leave before you receive forgiveness. By stating that all you need to do is repent for sin, is saying, "Lord, I am sorry", then turning away before he forgives you. That is why baptism must come after the initial prayer. You ask through prayer and receive through baptism.

Thus, in order to be born again you have to repent, be baptized (death) and receive the holy spirit (rebirth).

It is all in the word.

 

One is asking, the other is receiving



The Bible says repent and be baptized:



it is not speaking of water baptism for salvation. You think that all baptism is water baptism. First of all, Acts was written to people who were already saved!



Eph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:







1. Repent for the sin (The prayer) - Repent



and



So, if "the prayer is repentence" Then I am saved.



Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



I have repented, therefore I will NOT perish.



Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;



I have repented, therefore I am saved.



Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.



I have repented, and believe the gospel therefore I am saved.



Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;



Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.



I have repented and have prayed to God that He would forgive me.





2. Be baptized for the releasing of the sin. (The sin being removed/symbolic death of old self) - Receive remission



By saying a prayer, you are asking for the forgiveness. By being baptized, the sin is being washed away/released. That is why the Bible states that you must do both.



No it doesn't.





When you ask someone to forgive you, do you turn around and walk away? No, you wait for their response. You do not simply leave before you receive forgiveness. By stating that all you need to do is repent for sin, is saying, "Lord, I am sorry", then turning away before he forgives you. That is why baptism must come after the initial prayer. You ask through prayer and receive through baptism.





No you don't. Then are these verses lies?



Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

(KJV)



If we Believe ON Him for Salvation, we will be saved.



Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



If we confess Him with our mouth as our Savior and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead we WILL be saved.



Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



If we call upon His name, we will be saved.



Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(KJV)



It is by believing in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.



Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {set forth: or, foreordained} {remission: or, passing over}

(KJV)



It is by Faith.



Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



It is by faith in Christ for salvation.



Thus, in order to be born again you have to repent, be baptized (death) and receive the holy spirit (rebirth).



It is all in the word.





No it isn't.



Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(KJV)



It is by believing. He that believeth on Him is NOT condemned. You are calling God a liar.



2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. {inward...: Gr. bowels}



Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}

(KJV)



If we recieve Him, He promises to give us the power to become the Sons of God, even if we believe on His name.



You simply don't believe the bible. We receive the Holy Spirit before baptism, after we believe on Christ.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(KJV)

1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}
(KJV)

Baptism is NOT the gospel. It is the gospel that saves.

Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.