You are the one saying your's is the only true religion. You also say you can prove it right. But you can't. The only proof you offer up takes faith to believe it's proof. You have to believe all the storieds in the bible to be true in order to believe that your proof is actually proof. You can't prove things like Mary being a virgin, or Moses actually talking to god. Those are things that need to be accepted by faith (which is not necessarily bad). So basically, you can't use a prophecy about a boy being born to a virgin as proof when you can't prove that Mary was a virgin. You can't use chariot wheels on the bottom of the Sea as proof, because that doesn't prove the existance of god, it only proves the fact that there are chariot wheels down there. You would have to have faith that god seperated those waters and that he closed them on the Romans, but you can't prove that. You have to take it on faith. Nothing annoys me more than christians who go out and tell lies to people. I have no problem with christians sharing their religion, but be honest about the religion. I grew up with very fundamental christians, and they let me know at an early age that you cannot prove god's existance, that it takes faith. That should be understood by any christian, so people like me can't come along and disprove their notions on god. I have been debating with christians all my life, and I will tell you that the easiest debate for me to win is with someone who claims to have proof of god's existance. Because it just isn't humanly possible. Oh, and I loved this one: "The Bible is religious text with the provable facts(if you don't see that they you are just spiritually blind and look only at your own lust.)" Trust me, lust has nothing to do with why I refute your "proof" in the bible. And I would consider you to be spiritually blind, not myself. All the proveable facts in the bible does not prove the existance of god. It only proved what it proved. Sure, it may have been dead on thinking the earth was round, but that doesn't prove the existance of god. Sure is may have been right when it comes to archeological finds. Its an old, historical book. Makes sense. But that doesn't prove the existance of god. None of your "proveable facts" come close to proving the existance of god. It takes faith for that. Plain and simple. Yours is just a dirty technique for recruiting christians. Telling people that America is the new babalyon and that we are close to the apocalypse. You scare them into believing your religion. You basically lie to them. I believe that it is because of people like you that the religion is losing favor. Hey, maybe you are one of those false prophets your bible talks about.
Problem is in the translation from Hebrew to Greek many words were misunderstood. Like Virgin acually ment young woman. AND concidering Jesus did NOT fufill all the prophices to be the messiah. http://home.freeuk.net/jesusmyth/page10.htm
Makes sense. So the prophecy changes to "will be born son of a virgin" to "will be born son of a young woman" Now that really could mean anybody!
This thread is actually kind of amusing to me in some unknown way. It started off with the usual, "You owe me an explanation, and I'm just gonna nay-say everything you offer!!" non-believer comment, and then got into Strong-Atheism (Jatom) and biblical prophesy (JesusDiedForU). JesusDiedForU also offered a more Islamic apologetical argument about science in the Bible. I would suggest that the same way JDFU would invalidate the "science" found miraculously in the Quran is the same way he should go about viewing his "science" found miraculously in the Bible. As for biblical prophesy, - with the exception of McDowell and some other dull apologists its considered a defunct sort of apologetic. I'm writing an extensive article on it at the moment, and I'll provide the link to it when I'm finished. Lastly, the case for Strong-Atheism... I'm gonna be in a formal debate sometime within the next month, and I'll provide the link to my case for SA also. Its too early to go into my evidences right now =P. And I'm tired. I think I might take a nap. *falls unconscious* - Laz
Well unlike ufo's Jesus said if you search for me with all your heart mind and soul you shall surly find me, and I will reveal myself to you. It's God's promise to you.
Why is that so hard to believe? I think I'm too ignorant on the subject to make a valid decision on it. The existence of God could be very scientific. Why should I deny it? Why should I accept it? Because the Bible tells me too? We don't know. We can't percieve that. The world is not black and white.
Didn't other ancient civilizations in ancient America discover and understand most of these modern theories without the help of God? Weren't they able to accurately predict the future too? Didn't they just map the stars? I'm not sure, but I've heard that. Hey, and what about those philosiphers from ancient Greece? Educated guesses, helped him accuately predict the future too. Did God have to help them?
I did some research on this Ron Wyatt guy. What I found was pretty interesting. Not only does this man credit himself with finding these chariot wheels on the bottom of the red sea, he supposedly found Jesus crucifixion site, the hiding place of the ark of the covenant, the pillars of Solomon, the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the remains of Noah's Ark. Here is one of his nutty claims (and this was written in 1988, people...so since 1988 everyone has known this guy is a nutt): "Currently he claims to have found the blood of Christ and that DNA analysis indicates that Christ was born of a virgin." http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm That is halarious, becuase this guy is obviously a nutjob, all your archeological "proofs" comes from this one same person. Please, how could you guys be so gullible. i have even found christian sources saying this guy is a fraud. Here is one : http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html ANd a follow up to the article: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ This guy is a crock. JDFU, I couldn't find ANY sources other than Ron Wyatt or related that mentions the discovery of chariot wheels in the Red Sea. I even found a Red Sea Survey Report taken in 1994 that cited all discoveries in the Red Sea starting at 1969 going to 1994 (long after Wyatt claims he found these chariot wheels). They mentioned nothing of that fine, only of shipwrecks and such dating back around the 18th century. More reading on Ron: "Ron never relied on scientists or professionals to confirm his work. He employed scientific testing and then presented the results along with the biblical, historical, archaeological and scientific evidence in the belief that each person was capable of making their own decision. The problem with this reasoning is that Wyatt did claim to use "scientific testing." And it is the scientific validity of that testing which is often the source of questions about Wyatt's claims. The "belief that each person was capable" denies the reality that the average person is utterly unequipped to evaluate Wyatt's claims in a vacuum. It is only when those claims are challenged by alternative scientific information that the average person would have the slightest clue that Wyatt's claims might even be questionable. It would appear that Wyatt's promoters extensively rely upon the fact that most audiences for videos, lectures and articles about Wyatt's claims seldom come into contact with any "contrary" information about those claims. It has only been with the advent of the Internet that the average person has access to do meaningful comparison between the claims of Wyatt and the alternative explanations and evaluation of his critics. Unfortunately, a significant proportion of those who come under the influence of Wyatt's claims are so enamored of them … as "proof of the Bible" … that they may reject out of hand any contrary information as being "critical of the claims of the Bible." http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html
"I am 99.9 percent sure I picked up a chariot wheel," Peter Elmer tells WorldNetDaily after two diving trips to the Gulf of Aqaba branch of the sea. "It was covered in coral." The 38-year-old forklift mechanic from Keynsham, England, traveled to the region with his brother, Mark, after being inspired by videos of explorers Ron Wyatt and Jonathan Gray, who have documented artifacts that in at least one case authorities have confirmed to be a chariot wheel dating to the time of the Exodus. Rest of the Story... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33168
Dooooooode, how's a charitot wheel that's made outta wood gonna stay together fer 3000 er somethin years?
I was watching a show on discovery about the plauges of moses, and they explained them all pretty scientificall with pretty good evidence as there is no fact in science... But i have to admit it would be quite spooky even by todays standards...
It isn't made out of wood ... its made of Gold. Freaky Joe we know how skeptic you are.... you are not going to believe the Bible even if you found for yourself to be a 100%-No Doubt-True...
I don't think gold would make a good wheel. I mean, you don't see very many cast iron wheels. "you are not going to believe the Bible even if you found for yourself to be a 100%-No Doubt-True..." But if I found it to be "100% No Doubt True" I'd have to believe it right? If I found it for myself. But, there hasn't been nearly enuf "evidence" to convert me.
LOL So I should trust a forklift mechanic to back up Ron Wyatt the nut? You still have nothing to say about all the information I presented to you about Ron Wyatt? Did you even consider looking the man up yourself before preaching all his findings? Because I think you made yourself look like a fool. I mean, the lunatic down the street tells me he sees Elvis...Should I just believe him? And you have no comment on the Red Sea Survey? There is no mention of discovering chariot wheels on the red sea, and the survey reported findings from 1969-1994. Even though some findings may (they arent for sure) have been of the roman period all they have found is ship wreckage, jars, bowls, metal, and even a keg. No chariot wheels mentioned though...Although I can imagine that if a roman ship wrecked while transporting chariots than a chariot wheel definitely could be there. It is nowhere near proof of gods existance....just Roman existance, and we all knew about that anyway. http://www.adventurecorps.com/sadana/94survey.html
Oh the bible is true, take it from someone who knows. I asked God to reveal himself to me. Like Jesus stated. In my 54 years on this earth if I know anything, I know the bible is true. God has spoken to me, He has revealed things to me, I have walked the approches of heaven. Search for Christ and He will come to you, it's His promise. I'm telling you He is a supernatural God. And He has wonders to perform.
