How can god not exist?

DeoxyRibonucleicAcid

Listen to what?
Saved from what?

What occam wants is a literal interpretion of 'the house at pooh corner'.
The bible is a poor fable compared to pooh.

You talk the talk of a pawn of organised bigotry.
All this devil hating the jews crap.
You wouldnt know a jew if one stepped on your face.

Occam is a jew
And a negro
And gay....
And agnostic

But he needs no 'book' to support his thought.
Especially a book that says a good man will suffer in hell
Because that man is does good by his own means, without 'the word'
to guide him.
That to be good by a code of reason.
IS not 'good enough

Occam

 

"I often wonder what the atheists think of the laws that are
going to be passed against those who cannot tolerate the
religious beliefs of others,and what are they going to do when
they are forced to become part of the religious system when all religions are united together?
Most will no doubt conform. Have you known many atheists
who will die for what they claim they believe?
Atheists love sin,and they know it. No secret there,duh!"


Ahhhh!! Fuck!! Head hurt!! No, I would not DIE FOR MY BELEIFE! I WOULD LIVE FOR IT!!!!! I WOULD NOT FORCE IT ON SOMEONE, AS CHRISTIANS, AND INDEED, ALL OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE DONE, I LET PEOPLE BE!! "ATHIESTS LOVE SIN"?????? WHAT THE FUCKING HELL??? I LOVE LIFE!!! I LOVE THE EXPERIANCE!!!! WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I LOVE??!! YOU'VE NEVER MET ME, YOU'VE NEVER LIVED WHAT I'VE LIVED!!!! DON'T EVER EVEN PRESUME TO KNOW WHO OR WHAT I AM!!

I AM AN ATHIEST, AND I LOVE.

 

yea moobs!!! you tell that bible pusher!!

 

OK, so now I imagine that there is now and has never been a "god" or any sort of supreme being. By your logic, that is now the "truth".



Do you see how that is flawed?

 

Now, I imagine that there is , and always has been a God. By your logic that is now "truth"

Do you see how it is flawed?

 

Well, all that I know is this...Behind everything is the unseen. There is a force that moves everything perfectly and in balance and gives us the ability to argue over things of this nature. I don't believe that the universe is an accident and I also am not a Bible pusher. I believe in inter-faith spirituality and I don't rely on physical evidence. To rely on physical evidence is a lie just as much as is trying to disprove God or the unseen in many cases. If your wife or loved one tells you that they love you, then you have physical proof because you heard this. This physical proof can be observed by looking at previous deeds judging if what they say is true...it can correspond and also seem untrue. However, emotionally, this physical proof can be a lie. You don't know what they feel, you only trust and acknowledge them. You can see and hear things that can be tested to be true, but really a test is a test, not reality, it is a complex thing to understand. Also , to deny the existance of a supreme power can be naive because science says that for every action is an opposite but equal reaction. A pine cone is not alone, for there is a great, massive tree that gave life to it. Man can know beautiful emotions and see beautiful things in the universe, thus comes the belief in a creational power that gave us existance. How can we accidentally be created from matter when the matter had no creation? There is something moving that matter and that is what I call God. The universal creation had to be of a sort of balance or desire to be made so perfectly. To simply deny the existance of a creator would be to only use a small portion of our minds. We have intelect, we have reason, we have passion, we have analytical drives, we have love, we also have faith. I can feel what the outcome of a situation may be. I can distrust my mind's perception and go find physical proof and realize that I was right or I can have faith and trust, and behold that I am right. The idea of there being no oneness or Brahmin because of no physical evidence doesn't proove anyhting to me. I can't see emotions but I can connect with people and we can share them. We can't see emotions but we can see the effects of them. They are real, gigantic things within us.To think something is an illusion because you can't test it or see it is an illusion. If I can feel something to be true, then dream it , then later find that what I felt and dreamt was true by word of mouth, then I know that my trust is not blind. Some may call themselves Atheists and others Christians, Hindus, or Buddhists. etc. Atheists may say that they do not believe in God, however they are still searching for what they have come from , just as any spiritual seeker. Both do the same thing, only one denies the existance of a particular word which seems imponderable. Terminology is incomplete and very limiting, reality is the total truth. Bullshit is what comes from us when we forget that life is imponderable and naturally mysterious. I am not afraid of bowing down to a power that is just and complete. I am rebellious, thus so is my creator. I am that which is the Earth, that which is Brahmin. Within me is Atman.The creator is within and without us all. That is how I see truth.

Anything man-made has flaws. Man makes flaw upon himself and the Earth. the Earth overpowers man, God is realized by man.


Ben.

 

Einstein: there are two ways to live your life, as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle.

 

Yes, very much so.


Ben.

 

Back to the quantum physics pseudo response, are you trying to tell me there is a good chance the sun isn't really there? I see it, I feel it. What the hell? As far as god, there are nights i go to bed thinking in my head there is no god and nights i talk to him because i want him to answer. All i do know is that religion has got god all wrong.

 

Try the question, how are you to even know if god exists or not? I think you will find that god is only a notion, a theory. How can you know god to be any more than this. A tree is a theory. It is not a tree, it is only labeled tree, how can you prove that it is a tree? Show me god, and then we will discuss god.

 

If I may offer my two-cents-worth...

It strikes me that "god" begins wherever science ends. It also seems to me that the search for "god," if by that you mean an explanation for our creation, our death, and a plan for how we are to live together, is an expected result as we, as a species, moved beyond concerns of survival to having at least some leisure time. Much in the same way that a young child does not fully understand death (think of school children on 9/11/01 skipping and laughing as they were sent home early from school. By the way, I am thankful that many children still functioned somewhat normally as most adults were in a state of shock.), the human mind (in many cases) cannot deal with the realization that there is no greater meaning to existence and that the universe is a random set of events in a space so expansive that we could never comprehend. In all cultures there have been examples of attempts to fill in that vaccuum of understanding with something that provides meaning to our existence--our brains are simply too powerful to accept anything less.

Ultimately, I would argue that the existence of a beneficient higher power according to any specific religious edicts is essentially irrelevant. It is our contact with one another that holds meaning in all of this. We, as individuals, may choose to help to raise one another up or we may choose to add to each other's burdens; if there is a "god" in whatever form, he/she has no direct contact or effect on what we do here--it is up to each of us to see the essential good in helping one another, rather than to live for some perceived reward in the afterlife.

If you will for give the cliche, we must "pay it forward" to succeed in life.

 

Dear Isness, your truth and mine differ, but that is okay. I see Spirit in a blade of grass. If you saw God, would you still have the free will to choose whether or not to believe? that is the catch 22. I have begged, taunted and insulted Satan for a decade, calling him a chicken, coward, etc. because he won't appear to me face to face. My Christian friends get very nervous when I do that, but I dont believe in Satan so I do not. We can both be right, in my view, there is no God in your truth, but there is in mine. I have seen many miracles, many.

 

God to me is many things. Not the word, but the reality and the realization. There have been so many prophesies and so many miraculous events to occur in life, that there seems to only be a highest point. If everything were random, then visionaries probably could not pinpoint and tell us of occuring events so perfectly as they do and always have. Everything happens perfectly and cause and effect fit together perfectly, whether good or bad. Even if the universe was a random occurence in space, there was still some type of desire in something to create the occurence, it is still a miracle, thus I still believe in something moving this creation so perfectly. If atoms join together as such incredible speeds, then there is physical prof of desire when they combine. If we had all we needed only to survive, then we wouldn't need beauty but we still have it. We wouldn't have consciousness, because we ALL would be thiefs, liars and murderers...we would only need to survive, so there would be no thinking twice about hurting others...that is survival of the fittest!. There is still something in us all that speaks through us within. If we had only but essentials to survive, we would not have imagination and creative thinking. We have the power to create beautiful music, but the desire is within us first. Sometimes I don't know how the hell we come up with all this crazy stuff with all of these contradictory ideas. I mean, Buddhism agrees with Physics and so does Hinduism. Science does not seperate from Eastern philosophy, so why all the argument over the miraculous? I just don't believe that all the great sages, prophets, and visionaries were wrong, because the things they said have come true and are still coming true. A hallucination/vision is physically not there, but who in the hell has the right to say that it isn't real or Godly just because only one person can see it? Nothing happens to everybody the same way! Things happen in a physical and metaphyiscal manner, always. We suppossedely only see through light rays anyway,so our spiritual, emotional, and creative side, to me, has more proof than anything else. We cannot see feelings, but we can see the effects of feelings. We know it's real when we feel. Scientists use tools and equipment that already are prone to error and miscalculation, so how can those answers only get us anywhere?


Ben.

 

believing in something at all is bad. especally if you dont have conclusive evidence to back it up. When we are born we know very little or almost to nothing about the world, colors, shapes, sounds. Are parents teach us morals and belifes in what we hear around us. This gets programmed into our brains, and thus we believe in it. We should look at everyones point of view on life as a lie. Actually more of a story. everyones has there own story on life, and nothing is wrong nor right. believe in nothing and you can look at life with endless possiblities. anything is possible. I'm sure many people in this forum can relate. I have been in worlds that no one can relate to. believing stops your brain from working, and it becomes clinically dead.

This is just my story

 

Well, in this day and age of materialism, we have lost connection with a great portion of ourselves. I believe that most of these ideas and beliefs of physical evidence beyond what we have within and without will fade with time. To me, it seems to only be a fad and an accepted way of thinking because of the times. America is powerful; we have nothing higher than ourselves to live for anymore because of our wealth and so our minds shape with the times..this could be a possibility (no disrespect to the hard working, good hearted Americans out there.) All I know is that neither side will ever win because we will always argue and fight over opinions. I believe that both worlds must unite and do. This age that we are living in though, is based on materialism more than anything else and so of course fads in thinking will emerge...they always do. Like I said, I am no Bible pusher, Science and Religion have to coinside to show the true meaning behind everything. People think in different ways but the truth is always existant despite popular ways of thinking and experimentation. Still, though, I look back and see that the end of an age is appoaching us and that this way of thinking that we are involved in was predicted a very long time ago and that we are on the emergence of a great realization perhaps. This is my belief. I do not deny science, I just understand the world through spirituality and religion and I also know that physically, these things correspond and should in science.


Peace,
Ben.

 

alan watts:
give us this day our daily faith
but deliver us from our beliefs

 

You will find your mind is able to deal with the truth far better than it is able to deal with colorful descriptions of non existent conditions.

 

Nice beliefs. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

 

I am not saying there is no god. God is whatever we want it to be. I see a tree, the tree is god. I see a rock, the rock is god. God exists in the imagination. I can call anything god. This does not hold any more truth than calling a tree a tree, or a rock a rock, or even a rock a tree. Perhaps god is the imagination.

 

My sense of God is my sense of wonder at the universe. Albert Einstein