Homosexuality/Christianity conflict (MERGED)

Hi Sherlock.


I used to frequent a Christian website with a forum with different threads. I mentioned the fact that I am a gay Christian and someone responded that there was no such thing.

I thought it was hilarious but I, also, thought how tragic for the homosexual community to have to contend with so many ignorant bigots who insist on spirtitual terrorism against gays and lesbians in organized religion and who are lobbying Capitol Hill to legislate against the human rights of the homosexual community.

At least, in Europe, a few truly enlightened societies such as those of Holland and Spain have legalized gay marriages and all present members and would be members of the European Union have to decriminalize consensual homosexual acts between adults.

A ray of this bright light of enlightenment has reached Canada and even peeked into the U.S. Supreme Court: legalized gay marriages in Canada and official declaration of anti-sodomy laws as being unconstitutional in the USA.

'Tis better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

 

I love you

 

Something interesting I found on the net.





Various interpretations of Leviticus 20:13:


Conservative Christians generally interpret the passage as condemning all male homosexual activity. Some would extend it to lesbians as well. A comment on the capital punishment aspect of this passage by an Evangelical authority is:


T.Crater: stated that the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are a covenant between God and Israel, which also set up a civil state and decreed its laws. The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is an agreement "between God and a multinational body called the church. It is not a state, so it doesn't engage in state functions like capital punishment." Thus, the death penalty called for in Leviticus 20:13 is no longer binding for Christians.


Liberal Christians Some comments on the death penalty aspect of this passage by pastors and academics taking a liberal position are:


J. Nelson: "It is grounded in the old Jewish understanding that women are less worthy than men. For a man to have sex with another man 'as with a woman' insults the other man, because women are to be treated as property." She added that this passage is not part of the 10 Commandments, but merely part of almost 600 additional rules put forth via Israel's religious leaders.

D. Bartlett: "Nobody I know, even the most conservative, is saying homosexuals should be executed. I think people who think they take the Bible literally don't take it so literally as to want to execute people."

Krister Stendahl: "If you look at the whole chapter, a lot of things come in for capital punishment that no Southern Baptist would argue that capital punishment is appropriate for. So their reading is a little selective."

Many religious liberals believe that this passage does not refer to all homosexual behavior, but only to a specific form of homosexual prostitution - that performed in a Pagan temple.

National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation: They state that a word-for-word translation of this verse from the original Hebrew is: "And a man who will lie down with a male in beds of a woman, both of them have made an abomination; dying they will die. Their blood is on them."

In modern English this could be translated as:

"If two men engage in homosexual sex while on a woman's bed, both have committed an abomination. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

This does not generally forbid homosexual behavior between two men. It only limits where the act can be done.

 

Evening Kabbalist.

Loving you back, kiddo.

What a keauxinsidense, I'm reading Perle Epstein's book, "Kabbalah - The Way of the Jewish Mystic."

I'll respond to your above post tomorrow or Saturday I was in bed listening to http://www.airamericaradio.com and laughing my nuts off listening online to Mike Malloy tearing "Reverend" Pat Robertson limb from limb when I remembered to check my email and decided to check out the Hip Forums.

Good night everyone.

 

I'm not christian, but if all chrîstians say that god craates everything in the world, then homosexuallity must be created by God. how can someone hate what he create?

 

I've been very busy, however, I found a new gay Christian web site which, I hope, many of you will like.

It's http://home.wanadoo.nl/inspiritus/indexdec.htm

 

I'm straight and an atheist, so I dunno if I can give you any advice that'll make you feel better.

But anyone who would tell you you're immoral for having feelings for someone else is simply wrong. There are no lies between you and god.

 

I Am A Catholic And Raised In A Very Strict Catholic House Hold .... I Know The Bible Like The Back Of My Hand................now After Saying That.............i Do Not Agree We Are Going 2 Hell 4 Being Gay. I Personally Feel If Lovin Some 1 Wholeheartedly, Is The Greatest Love Of All! Then How Can That Be Soooooooooooo Wrong ? I Believe In God And Yes She Is A Hottie 2!!!!!! If U Love Some 1 For Themselves , Then How Can Lovin Any 1 Reguardless Of Their Sexual Oruientation Be Punishable By Going 2 Hell. I Belive There Is A Reason 4 Everything , And If Im Going 2 Hell When I Die .well.....................at Least Im Happy Now Livin And Lovin My Woman !!!!!!!

 

I think that both recognize that love between two people is a sacred thing & that love is more important than getting all hung up on the gender issue. Each has their own take on it but the concept is the same as far as I can tell. Bedsides neither Buddists or Pagans buy into this Hell as a place thing
The ultimate goal in Buddist tradition is to reach Nirvana. You hae many lives to attain that goal. If you live a good life your next life will be that much closer & it will be a better life than the one you are in. Live a bad life & the opposite is true.

Wehn you say Pagan that has become a pretty wide encompassing term. Many Pagans believe as I do a mixture of things so the reincarnation thing still fits in. There are variations of course including I suppose for lack of better term Fundalmentalist Pagans but I know for a fact that a Fundalmentalist Pagan is far more accepting of others than a Fundalmentalist Christian & still believes that the love is the important thing.

 

I've been Christian for 15 years now, and it's all I know. I used to hate myself for being gay, but I'm getting used to it...

However, I constantly have this gut wrenching feeling that no matter which way I decide to go, I'm gonna be wrong.

If I decide to live a Christian life and give up boys forever, I might waste my life away on a religion that may not even be right.

If I give in and do whatever I want, giving up religion forever, not only will I have wasted 15 years of my life, but I'll possibly live the rest of eternity in an unbearable pit of fire and suffering.

I really have no idea what I can do, and while I know the easiest answer is, "Just do what feels right" Could I get a bit more insight please?

 

Although its a long and difficult book to read, find the book: Christianity Social Tolerance and Homosexuality by John Boswell. There are many people who struggle with exactly the feelings you describe. Boswell's book explores early Christianity and finds that being gay was completely accepted by the church for years. Jesus himself said nothing about same sex relations, and much of the condemnation of homosexual behavior has been inserted into the bible through deliberate mistranslation of the early text. In short, you can be exactly who you are, a Christian boy who loves other boys. If you want to check out some stuff on the web try MyOutSpirit.com GaySpiritually Blog. What ever you do, you are NOT "gonna be wrong". You are a young child of God trying to find your place as God made you and in a world of confusion made by man. Take care of you...you are as you are supposed to be.

 

You can be Christian and gay! Irrational fundementalist beliefs are telling you otherwise, yet you need not abide by these values.

Yarapario put it very well. Just be yourself. Follow your religion and your sexuality and feel no guilt for either

 

Hi JackBond, I've merged your thread onto this as I believe they are discussing and reflecting on the questions you have just asked.

Now people on here have asked what the pagan belief is concerning this, I believe that the majority of pagans would probably be ok with homosexuality (do what you will but hurt none) some of the more fundamental pagans may believe that it is an insult to the goddess and god, however I think they would still believe that it would be up to the individual concerned to face their karmic lesson concerning their sexuality and although their lessons may not always be easy, they wouldn't be damned for eternity.

my own thoughts are that the goddess and god are a representatuion of the sacred feminine and masculine and that it actually balances its self out over all, so while there are masculine couples there are feminine couples as well and anyway it goes way beyond are physical sex
S

 

But yarapario, why would God make ONLY men and women physically compatible and then say it's okay to break that design? I'm not really looking for a way to fit being gay into my Christian beliefs, 'cause I personally believe it can't be done. I'd love to believe it more than anything, but same sex relationships seem completely wrong by human design.

 

Sounds like your trying to convince yourself that its wrong, I am physically compatable with my partner, I don't care what you or your version of god has to say about that and if your version of being physically compatable means having children, how many people in the world are having sex and not intending on having children, anal intercourse isn't unknown with straight couples you know, its very popular.
you might as well ask yourself why would god make gay people, is it to be really miserable while they try not to be gay?
and if your going to tell me god didn't make you gay, then its very easy choose not to be.
Its sounds to me like the majority of people on this thread actually do feel like same sex relationships can go with being homosexual and if you allowed yourself you might get a sense of relief from this, instead of just throwing it back in peoples faces
S

 

Well Jack, I really can't answer for God but here are my thoughts. Gay folks can't compare their sexual satisfaction to the male/female model. We, as gay people, satisfy and please each other differently. Its my feeling that when it comes to oral sex, only a guy can truely understand how to provide pleasure to another guy. Anal sex,I suppose, kind of approaches M/F intercourse and for some thats very pleasureable. So, where do Gay folks find the compatibility? Maybe for some of us its more of a spiritual thing or sharing of a bond than just the pure physical pleasure. Maybe its just the sweet comfort of holding and caring for another man, the warmth, the smell or the strength of being with another human who is made like I am. I don't dream that I'll be able to answer this question for you... It is far too great a question. It's the kind of question that comes from deep inside the soul...who am I...why was I born the way I am.
As a young boy brought up in the Cathoic Church, I never even thought about the right or wrong of my pleasure when having sex with another boy...it just felt right at the very core of my soul to enjoy another body...to give and receive pleasure as the two of us knew the other would respond to. As I grew older the nuns and priest named my love as a Mortal Sin...the go straight to hell type. God, I suffered so.I wanted God to love me, I was a good kid, I helped my parents and loved them dearly. I was kind to others. Yet I had to go to hell if I were to express physical love the way my heart and soul told me i needed to. I questioned God, of course...probably wasn't a God, all that teaching in the church was probably just crap. Somewhere along the line I began to realize that, in my view of the world, God did exist. Not as taught by the church but as felt by my soul. I turned then on religion and began to realize it was more a product of man than a true way of pleasing God. I found God in nature,in the beauty of the world around me. I found what God had best designed me to do...to care for others. I found a way to make my life rich and meaningful without sexually reproducing in a physically compatable way. Through lots of prayer, contemplation and meditation, I placed my sexual pleasure as a meaqnigful and pleasureable part of the whole man that I am. I love having sex with another man. I also love living my life as a whole person just the way God designed me. Gay folks are different, we have to think more about our fit in the fabric of life. And that, Young Jack, is the job you are facing now. How do you JackBond, live your life true to yourself. Please read the book I metioned. It may help you begin to balance what seems to be opposing forces in your life.
Sure went on a long time didn't I? Ahh well, You posed a great question with no easy answer. I love you young man. I love you because you are alive and squirming in your skin...trying to figure out what it all means... Good for you. Please feel free to ask more if anything I said makes sense and take care of you. Steve

 

It's about what you believe, not what the church says you should believe. The church is not God and has no right to tell you what God wants of you.

If your God is a truly loving, understanding one, then would he deny you entrance into heaven for being born as you are?

 

*Sniff* Thank you all. Those were some incredibly thoughtful responses. I actually cried a little...

I can think of arguments, but I'm probably just having trouble seperating myself from my beliefs. Now that I'm beginning to see things differently, I've lost all confidence in what I believe... I don't really know what to think...

 

why don't you investagate some gay churches most areas have them, I have to believe that god wants you to be close to him and except your sexuality at the same time
S

 

also I notice your 15, which is an incredably confusing time for most people regardless of sexuality and religion, so just be gentle on ourself, take some time and enjoy the journey
S