Holocaust Revisionism

Thats what I get for spell checker, playing games with my text.

 

Happilyinlove,

You're way to angry to discuss this. You've blinded yourself to the fact that no one is disputing that terrible things happened. You would know that if you weren't a fly-off-the-handle type, or if you had the inclination to read the thread. What's being disputed is the mass-gassing claim. That's all. You present an ad-hom attack that exposes your lack of ideas. I understand that you're trying to start a fire-fight with me to derail the thread. You're following other trolls; just take a look behind you. Odon lost interest when he was asked to refute the science of the matter. But that didn't stop him from continuing doing what ever it is he's doing . . .

 

Furthermore, you're genuinely upset with yourself for you inability to address this:

Dr. Robert Jan van Pelt is a professor of architecture at the University of Waterloo, Canada, and is widely considered to be the foremost expert on the technique and operation of the Auschwitz gas chambers. He claimed that the ventilation systems of the gas chambers were efficient enough to remove virtually all of the remaining HCN after a mass gassing so that the Sonderkommandos could enter the chambers within a very short time after the death of all of the victims in order to do their work. He said, "The situation in the gas chambers was different. With its powerful ventilation system and with the fact that most of the hydrogen cyanide was absorbed by the victims' bodies, the time needed to ventilate the gas chambers so the Sonderkommandos could safely enter them to remove the bodies could be reduced to twenty minutes."

David Olere was a French-Jewish man who was deported to Auschwitz in 1943. Dr. Van Pelt claimed that Olere is one of the most important eyewitnesses to the operation of the gas chambers. In Van Pelt's own words, the sketches of Olere "provide a very important visual record of the design and operation of the gas chamber and incinerators of Crematorium 3." Throughout his entire study he promotes the idea that Olere is a credible eyewitness by showing how his sketches are consistent with physical evidence.

However, in his book, van Pelt failed to include one of Olere's most important drawings. That painting shows the Sonderkommandos opening the gas chamber door and pulling the bodies out after a mass gassing. In the painting, the inmates are shirtless, and they are not wearing any gas masks, rubber gloves or protective suits. It seems likely that van Pelt failed to include this important sketch because he realized it could not have happened the way Olere claimed it did. Authoritative industrial sources confirm the extreme danger surrounding the use of HCN. Poisoning can easily occur by inhalation or skin absorption.

Bill Armontrout, was an expert witness at the second Ernst Zundel trial in Toronto. He was warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary, which includes an execution gas chamber. He said, "One of the things that cyanide gas does, it goes in the pores of your skin. You hose the body down, see. You have to use rubber gloves, and you hose the body down to decontaminate it before you do anything else." Armontrout testified that there was only one consultant in the United States that he knew of in the design, operation, and maintenance of gas chambers. That consultant was Fred Leuchter.

In court, Armontrout testified to the safety precautions that were necessary to prevent those who handled the dead criminal's body from being poisoned by the deadly HCN themselves. He said, "The ventilation fan ran for approximately one hour before two officers equipped with Scott air-packs could opened the hatch of the gas chamber and remove the lead bucket containing the cyanide residue. The two officers wore rubberized disposable clothing and long rubber gloves. They hosed down the condemned man's body in the chair, paying particular attention to the hair and the clothing because of the cyanide residue, then removed him and placed him on a gurney where further decontamination took place."

Since Leuchter is part of this discussion, it should be noted that he spoke of the dangers surrounding the handling of just one victim that was poisoned by HCN in a gas chamber: "You go in. The inmate has to be completely washed down with chlorine bleach or with ammonia. The poison exudes right out through his skin. And if you gave the body to an undertaker, you'd kill the undertaker. You've got to go in; you've got to completely wash the body."

Authoritative industrial sources confirm the extreme danger surrounding the use of HCN; poisoning can easily occur by inhalation or skin absorption.

I'm hoping that I don't have to explain how van Pelt's claim that, due to the poison gas being absorbed by all the dead bodies, the ventilation fans made the environment safe enough in twenty minutes for the Sonderkommandos to go in and haul out lots and lots and lots of bodies. That's my hope anyway. But I have my doubts.

_________________________________

And considering what you're refusing to let go of in the face of scientific fact, I'd be upset to!

 

And my guess is that this isn't going to do your mood any good either. But facts are facts, even if you don't want them to be.

_____________________________

A guy named David Cole Interviewed Dr. Franciszek Piper who was the director of the Auschwitz State Museum. During that interview, Piper was asked why the residue count was high in the delousing chambers, but low in the homicidal chambers. He said the Zyklon B was operated a very short time, about 20 or 30 minutes during 24 hours, and in the disinfestation rooms it operated the whole day and night. Such was the procedure of using gas in the disinfestation rooms and gas chambers. That bespeaks one mass gassing per day. That contradicts eyewitness testimonies which speak of repeated homicidal gassings going on day and night. So, the question is: Could the high death rate at the camp have occured if the gas chambers were used only twenty or thirty minutes during 24 hours" as Piper claims they were?

The New York Times published an article about a book by Jean-Claude Pressac. The book was written to refute revisionists. New York Times writer Richard Bernstein writes that according to Pressac, "it would have been necessary for the extermination rooms to have been emptied of corpses and refilled with new victims every half hour or so, as would have been necessary for such a large number of victims."

So, what we have here is a contradiction. It is claimed that limited use of the chambers explains the lack of residue. However, limited gassing contradicts eye-witnesses and makes the high gassing-death rate technically impossible. By attempting to support one part of the Holocaust story, Piper disproves another part.

 

A. Which image is this referring to?

I found this one:

B. Why would they care if a Sonderkommandos was poisoned?

 

What was the lifespan of a Sonderkommando, Odon?

 

There isn't a topic to discuss anymore. The questions have been answered, and people were repulsed by the very question itself.

Repeating the question over and over isn't going to change things. It's just antagonistic.

 

I don't know, what was it?

Why would they care if a Sonderkommandos was poisoned?

Which image is this referring to?

 

Because starch is an idiot who thinks the killers should be pitied somehow.

 

Happilyinlove,

If you don't appreciate the subject, then don't participate. You sound like a broken record. I don't know which questions you believe have been answered but the one at the top of this page is one no one has answered yet. Or perhaps I'm missing something. Where was it addressed? And the issue I brought up in post #244 hasn't been addressed either.

 

Wrong, Odon. Now you're making things up because you have no answer to any point being made. There will be no fire-fight. I thought you'd have figured that out by now.

But back to the question at hand. What was the lifespan of a Sonderkommando? Why are you throwing the question back at me. I want you to state the answer so that I can show you that that, too, will be a contradiction.

 

If you have an answer then tell us for Petes sake. All you're doing is flaming people and being deconstructive.. Post some original thought please, don't copy and paste someone else's. thanks

 

Approximately 4 months unless they died before that. Then new ones were chosen and the previous ones were executed. It was the job of the new ones to dispose of them.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando

 

The way you speak doesn't garner respect from me, and thats why I've dismissed you and your concerns.

 

storch

What am I making up?
How can I be wrong If I said: 'I don't know'?
I'm throwing it back because: 'I don't know'.
That's why I asked you.

 

And what did they die of, Heat?

 

Maybe. It might have been heat. Heat exhaustion. Not all of them, I would imagine. I guess it varied.

 

According to the records those that lived as long as the four months were gassed.

As of the record there appears to be only 10 and possibly 6 or 7 more who actually survived the death camps.

That is after 14 generations (crews) of record were used. There is no number that I can find regarding how many were in a generation.

There is also no record of how long working with corpses of those gassed it would take to be fatal to those handling them.

They were considered expendable by the Nazi's just as were others.

Reading the link provided would have answered your question(s).

 

"Because starch is an idiot who thinks the killers should be pitied somehow."

That, Odon. That's what you made up. Unless you can conjure up where I said the killers should be pitied. Or did you lie? And do I even really have to ask??

 

Heat,

I believe I provided ample proof that the handling of just one gassed body would be hazardous even to just exposed skin, to say nothing of actually breathing in the chamber and working hard shaving hair and removing gold teeth--hair which, by the way especially retains the cyanide. We're talking mass-gassing of very, very many bodies. Are you saying that these Sonderkommandos, with no protection, handled this endless procession of bodies for months without becoming ill and dying. Are you aware of the effects of cyanide on the body?