Hillary Clinton Is In...

Personally I find the current american political situation so hopeless I wouldn't even take a shit on it. Look alone at how they try to win a campaign (not just talking about the republicans)...

 

and that (underlined), my dear, is a big main fact here.

 

I would really rather not vote for anyone who voted for the Iraq War (Hillary). I think I will support Martin O'Malley until the general election, when I will certainly vote against the Republican no matter what.

 

Remember back when free trade policies with China were destroying Southern manufacturing jobs by the tens of thousands? Both parties were in favor of it. Couldn't vote against that policy at the ballot box. Even the Libertarians thought it was a good policy. A lot of small towns got turned into wasteland.

I do look at voting records. The GOP still sucks.

Every time I go in a driver's license office to renew mine, I look around and think in horror, "All these people get to vote!" :yikes: It's damn scary! It can be like hanging out in a mental institution.

 

A lot of people were taken in back then, because we trusted Colon Powell. He seemed like a straight-up guy with a brain.

 

Yeah, but others didn't fall for it. John Kerry, for instance.

 

Do you think Kerry would make a great President?

As much as I hate the last Iraq war and everything it represents, I have to take a lot of other things into consideration when choosing a presidential candidate.

(I've forgiven Powell too. I think he was misinformed.)

Asmo, I think you underestimate the vast distance between the American political left and right. I've never seen it worse in my lifetime.

Those of us on the left are not trying to get conservatives to become gay, or to have more abortions, or stop practicing their religion. We just want them to leave us the fuck alone. On the other hand, they believe that their beliefs and values are for all people, not just for those who agree with them.

The renewed emphasis on racism on the far right is just plain ugly. I really thought we had laid some of that shit to rest for good and forever. I thought we had become a better country than that. I was wrong.

Some of my views overlap with the Libertarians, but I have to believe in the value of public education, because of what it has done for me and my family. It leads to a more fair society.

 

Hillary Clinton is in ... um .... Iowa ... um ... and promises infinite prosperity .

 

Just as long as he cant keep up with good sax..

 

You know he can blow, and you're an expert on nuts. Could be a match made in heaven.

 

Yes, I was forced to read Macbeth in college

 

I don't think I underestimate that big division. I don't see why it means that the more left orientated voters should keep voting for the democratic party though

How it appears to me: the big majority of the left orientated voters do not believe in the change voting on a third party could bring (which is understandable of course if only a small minority would do it), but by keep voting on the 'lesser evil' that is the democrats you are all perpetuating a flawed system that reeks of a 2 party system even though yes, there are more parties to vote on.

Well, I see why you guys keep voting democrats... I understand. I just also see how hopeless it is. They won't bring change, they won't turn politics in a big progressive direction, certainly not with Hillary Clinton

edit: and maybe they won't even win the elections.

 

"filled with the same platitudes"

& Why not? Same speechwriters; different candidate.

The only candidate in recent memory who went beyond platitudes was Ron Paul: I disagreed w/ everything he had to say, but @least he was articulate & intense about it, which is more than you can say about the other 99 44/100ths%. They call them teleprompters, but I think of them as tele-barometers.

 

Asmo, I get what you mean. Big time. But it's become increasingly grim in America. The wealthy elite have nothing to worry about, while the rest of us ( middle class/poor) have to worry about basic things like housing and food on the table at the end of each week. And if there's some sort of medical crisis, then all is lost.

At least with the Democrats there's a few crumbs thrown at those most starving for food, housing, and social services. The Republicans seem quite satisfied to let those most in need decline or totally perish, etc. So what other realistic option do we have?

 

Get organized. It's a realistic option. If you're not all too apathetic/hopeless. Inform people of another possiility to make it more realistic. As it can happen. Doing the same thing over and over is surely not going to change anything for the better in this regard. American democracy is becoming (or has become) a joke. And that while it originally had so much good intent and still has so much potential. If the people are what makes up a country you guys as a whole better do something.

 

Where else do we go? Your ideas are all theoretical, at the moment. This superior liberal party doesn't exist.

To beat the GOP next year, she will have to run as a centrist, but she will shift somewhat to the left after the victory is secure. So, don't expect to hear a lot of liberal promises in her campaign speeches. She only needs to convince voters that Republicans have moved too far to the right.

I don't think it's fair to say that mainstream Democrats never make worthwhile changes anymore. ObamaCare is far from what it needs to be, but it was a huge step in the right direction. Liberal Democrats also accomplish all kinds of things at the state level that get little or no international media coverage, unless it's in New York or California.

 

Probably the situation in the USA is similar in some respects to the situation here. People have tried to organize new political parties, like the Greens and UKIP (UK independence party - right wing nutjobs).

I support the agenda of the Greens and vote for them in local and European elections. But the fact is that where I live the polls show Conservatives on 38%, Labour on 39% and the Greens on 0.7%. So if I want to say goodbye to the Conservatives, which I do very much, I have to vote Labour, even if I have many issues with their policies and direction.

The Greens have been trying to break through for years now, but when it comes to general election time, they get nowhere. And that's the problem for new parties in any country where you have an entrenched 2 party system.

There's also the question of finance. In America huge amounts are spent by the main parties. It's very hard for any newcomers to compete. Add to that media bias, and it's a difficult situation. Hard to see how things can meaningfully change.

 

Of course. If I had the solution I am sure some americans had it as well. I don't have to fill it in to save my country though. I don't have the solution, I just see voting democratic is not it. In fact it is only giving more support to the current flawed system. And like I said: there's a chance that despite all left oriented voters voting on the lesser evil that they will still lose. What use had all your votes then? Better try something different.
I am not saying the superior liberal party is already out there (I don't know what alternatives there are exactly, but why not vote for a third party that seems as good in their principles as the democrats but with a clean record). I think the only reason to vote democrat is to keep the republicans from winning. Otherwise your vote might be better spend on a third option. But the republicans may still win, so not sure how good the reason to vote democrat and perpetuate the same old is then.

 

I understand how hopeless it is. Just think nothing will change by voting democrats. I hope if they lose it will be a strong reminder to everyone that the vote of the american progressive person may still be relatively meaningless if they keep going for the 'lesser evil' expecting.... hm well dunno what they expect from the democratic party actually. Maybe they just need to win from the republicans and that's good enough (hopeless)