Guncrazy USA

The report I read said nothing about suicides. It was figures quoted for deaths from gun crimes, and it said that Switzerland, whilch also has lax gun laws (for the time being) has the second highest gun crime ratio outside the US.

 

this thread is now critically ridiculous and inane its totally well past its sell-by date and is only being perpetuated by people who are too retarded and unimaginitive to think of something else to post about

 

It's not my maths. Perhaps you can send your calculations to the editor of The Independent. I'm sure they'll print an apology if you prove them wrong.

Here is the quote published on 17th May 2007:

"6.2 people died of bullet wounds in Switzerland in 2005 per 100,000 of population, second only to the US figure of 9.42, and more than double the rate of Germany and Italy."

This is a recent article, and you will find it here.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2499298.ece

No matter how I look at it, it still looks like 6.2 to me.

 

You must be either D.P. Gumby or E.F. Gumby - see monty python it will be your kind of site

 

flawed logic, i already covered this.

those people who want government use violence, threats, and coersion to create and maintain it.

violence isn't necessary in order to get rid of government, but by definition any violence directed toward that government is self-defense and justified.

destroying(although reducing and eliminating is more peaceful route) government is not an act of aggression but an appropriate response to the government's aggression and the aggression perpetrated by the people support it either financially or otherwise.

i can want my neighbors house, but that's not justification to take it by use of violence or the threat of violence, and if my neighbor uses violence to repel my advances he would not be wrong in doing so.

their need to control is not ethically level with my need to not be controlled.
not fascist. fighting against existing oppression isn't fascist just because some people happen to enjoy the oppression.

 

not what i was saying, but not far from.

i've developed a prejudice against today's europeans,(nationalities not race), but i'm working hard to suppress it.

i'm just glad we aint europe.

 

stay over there mate - you wouldnt understand modern anarchy youre stuck with some glorious little 18th century oddity called libertarianism which remains singularly unencumbered by an ounce of modernism or postmodernism - it is the ancient bullshit of early american settlers whose idea of freedom was greed and moral opportunism in the form of negation of social obligations

 

different century, same european arrogance...

you'll learn, you guys started two world wars, it's only a matter of time.

 

maybe if we win our revolution we could have a war with the usa and we could sort it out
you could meet me with all your riot gear on pointing all your guns at me and spouting libertarian crap and we will kick your arses - you dont get it do you - own a gun and be the state - go for greed and no social obligation - capitalism and corporatism - youre everything that the european revolution is fighting - fascists

 

yeah, i've seen how well your revolutions work out. good luck with that.

there is no such thing as social obligation, only free will and control.

 

social obligation is everything anarchists are working toward - away from the chaos of capitalism and toward the society of the free - in chaos there is no freedom the man with the guns is the opressor

 

So, let me get this right...

It's alright for people to shoot themselves in the head? Doesn't that constitute that a gun is a dangerous and unnecessary object in society? I didn't realize euthanasia was legal in the States. I must do a "google" later on.

If not all of the 49 murders that the 6.2% figure of Swiss deaths by gun incorporates were perpetrated by crime, it doesn't make the accidental deaths any the less serious to contemplate.

The title of this thread is Guncrazy USA, and we'll be crazy to ignore the dangers of guns if we are to assume that they are lethal just in the hands of criminals. People are too irresponsible to own them. Some people even used to take them to school for discussion!?! Guns are dangerous. Not the sort of thing you want to be walking around the town with. It is crazy. Guncrazy.

 

you sound like a Menshevik, you'll be just as successful.

what you're trying as already been tried and failed, and tried and failed.

but lets stop hijacking this thread.

we're supposed to be discussing why guns shouldn't taken out of free men's hands.

 

We weren't talking about you Shane, perhaps that's hard to accept. Someone else pointed out that I might be some kind of anarcho-socialist Euro-trash living in the US. It is well-documented on HipForums that I am a military veteran who has fired many guns in my lifetime, has turned his back on society and her ills and is soon to turn his back on civilization because, as Ronnie the Burgerman will tell you, we as a race are not worth saving. Burn baby, burn!

And when that happens, I WILL have the means to keep you nutbags and your commercialism/consumerism out of my home by force.

So there goes your theories about me. Your comments?

 

christ - zoomies gone nuts

 

you nut bags?

i'm not into consumerism or commercialism.

I just think there are options other than burning everything down and/or creating a socialist police state.

and no i'm not into corporatism, corporations are an invention of the state.

and i thought you were addressing me because i asked if you were a brit, my bad.

 

Show me a gun that is walking around town on its own and I will agree with you until then your argument as well as your words I quoted are worthless. You still seem hard pressed to seperate people from things. People are in control it is there missuse that is the problem not the guns. The guns dont walk around town, only a crazy person would believe guns walk about the streets on thier own.

 

Ok so I didn't mean you specifically. But the forces out there who hide behind the mask of anarchy and peace seem to have some internal need to tell me what is right and what is wrong and what is acceptable in modern "civilised" society. I'm 44 years old. Don't you think by now that if I didn't already know these things that I'd be rotting in a gulag someplace?

You're all no better than the Christian Right. Knock on my door and tell me that I can give up this and give up that and we call all live together in harmony. So I did. And to date, nothing has changed. Things are WORSE. I work 10+ hours a day EVERYDAY (for 15 years) to make some small, local aspect of society better and I get shit on anyway. So I've decided to make the world better for ME by removing myself from civilization. This world is headed down a path to self-destruction and it is my earnest opinion that there is little chance to turn back.

I mean, let's get real, folks. Do you honestly think anyone is ever going to do anything concrete about global warming? Deforestation? Habitat destruction? Extinction of vital species? We can't even keep fucking honeybees alive!!! Do you honestly think Hilary or Obama will take office on Jan 20th, wave a magic wand and say "eenie meanie chili beanie, all US troops out of Iraq"? That Muslim fundmentalists won't strike again and Christian fundamentalists won't strike back? Do you think there will EVER be peace on earth and good will toward humankind? My neighbor can't even go out for a beer without worrying about taking a beating just because he's black. And we live in a blue state!!!

I've had my reality check.

No, Ronnie. Zoomie was nuts to put up with this shit for the last 15 years. Zoomie's gone SANE. Zoomie sees the TRUTH.

Or it's the whiskey talkin', I'm not sure...

 

Zoomie,

There is no hell, there is only France.
- Frank Zappa

LOL. Right on, bro.!

 

I can sympathize with what Zoomie is saying, and as I've said before, I think he is one of the most underestimated persons in this forum. Just because he CARES about issues, doesn't make him any the less SANE.

Oh, and yes, guns don't move around by themselves, indeed, YNB, but that still doesn't provide adequate answer to my post, which is guns are dangerous NOT only in the hands of criminals, but also in the hands of everyday citizens. It's not just gun crime I am opposed to, it's all the accidents that can happen just by having dangerous guns around.

But, that's alright. I will be patient.

Like with every post that I make that raises any kind of issue which, takes the pro-gun lobby a few days to patch up some form of answer, I fully expect about five pages of distracting discussions on who is the real anarchist in here, perhaps a Boss Hogg appearance or two, Balbus writing a civil charter accusing DP of evading the subject, DP ignoring Balbus completely so that the whole process will continue to repeat ad nauseam, perhaps another death threat or two towards me from the mid-age-crisis contigent (or is it cottage-end?)

So I'll just get the popcorn, and enjoy the show you guys have provided. I've got to hand it to you all, this is better than watching TV. I'm actually quite surprized that the Fonz hasn't made an appearance yet! Or even a guest appearance by Jesus, or one of his messengers.

IMHO, Massachusetts seems to have the right kind of idea on gun control from a safety point of view. It imposes harsh punishment on those not obeying its strict gun laws.