Guncrazy USA

It's purely a practical issue since there are so many farmers and we have a big tradition of seasonal game shooting throughout the country. I don't doubt that if we started having a problem with lots of murders involving shotguns the laws would be toughened up.

Sylvian's post about Norway was valuable because it reminds us that most of the civilised world has these kinds of measures in place to ensure that only those who really need guns can have them and to limit the number in circulation. It's really only America that lags behind on this issue, and since it is causing such problems there it's something that really needs dealing with urgently.

 

Well it doesn't have to make sense, it's just a piece of legislation which has been around for about 40 years which is working for the time being! If it was found that there was a problem with people buying dozens of shotguns and we had a problem with shotgun crime, I'm sure the law would change. As it is it's just a recognition that shotguns are less dangerous than other firearms and so are not as strictly controlled, as well as being a practical issue - they are so ubiquitous among farmers that not every one needs to be approved individually. The person is licensed not the weapon.

You can get hold of rifles for hunting if you have a legitimate hunting or sporting need, but these are classed as firearms and a separate license is required for each.

 

The only people who supported Tony Martin's right to kill a teenager were (an admittedly large number of) right wingers who believe that property is more important than human life. Thankfully our laws don't see it that way, and enshrine the principle that while those teenagers were completely in the wrong to break into someone's house and attempt a burglary, in no way do they deserve to be killed for it.

It's not a case of "protecting the guilty and punishing the victim" as it was talked about in the right wing press, but an issue of basic human rights and defending yourself and your property with a proportianate response.

 

So Ronald and you also lithium. In your opinion should Tony MArtin been convicted or not?
If convicted on what charge, Murder, Manslaughter, illegal weapons possession?

If his gun was illegally owned then yes he should be charged with illegal possession, but not with any other charge. You have to remember that not all guns are banned, farmers may still own guns, and so may people who use rifles for competition target shooting. - So if someone breaks into a farmers house and the farmer uses a legally owned shotgun and fires it at a burglar I think that is his right, the law says it is not his right unless that can be shown to be "reasonable force" For example suppose I am a Karate expert and someone unarmed breaks into my house, the law says I cannot karate chop this person to death, but must only use reasonable force to eject the person, or to subdue them until the police arrive. Suppose the burglar has a knife, the law says you too can then use a weapon. However there is room in the law for a case of unlawful killing to be brought if it can be shown your force was unreasonable.

My personal feeling is that if someone enters my property for illegal purposes I will feel entitled to use such force as to render them dead or unconscious and will use whatever weapon comes to hand to achieve that effect

 

Weapons are instruments which have been specifically designed to kill. Our aim, if we are indeed civilized, should be to see their extinction, before we face ours.

 

shit happens, tragedy happens, and just in light of these things i would not be willing to lay down and sacrifice my rights. i do not trust the goverment with all the guns.

 

I do not trust anyone with a gun. The majority of the worlds population are idiots, and it should be apparent to almost anyone that idiot+gun=disaster...

 

You think?

 

Well said, gentlemen. As this thread has progressed, I have come to appreciate that a lot of Americans live in a "gun culture" which is hard to dismiss overnight.

I can understand if someone enjoys shooting at a firing-range, under supervision, because he/she finds it relaxing. As long as the firearm is the locked away safely, away from easy reach.

Firearms as household security I do not agree with. The problem of violent burglary can be countered by a humane welfare system that emphasized respect, and healthy family life from an early age. Enough trillions are sitting idle in banks worldwide to achieve this task which we are daily brainwashed to think as monumental.

Firearms to protect civilians from the government is just ludicrous. There is nothing as harmful as civil war. America already had one. Did America not learn anything from its all too brief history?

 

Sure doesn't look that way. I mean, friends of mine (from the states) were actually shocked when the planes hit the towers and pentagon... I have just been waiting for something like that to happen. And still the US sticks its proverbial nose into business where it should not be stuck. It seems to me that the majority of american citizens have problems understanding the golden rule (for the ignorant; the golden rule = Do unto others as thou wish others to do unto thee)...

 

I was just reading something in Newsweek about the "gun culture" in America...it's disturbing.

I hate how congress undermines the efforts of the police departments...

"Hard as it is to believe, right now the federal law prevents our police officers from looking at all the data on guns used in crimes in our region. Where and when were they bought-and by whom? These are questions that we can't ask. That means we can't easily identify crooked dealers and illegal trafficking patterns. We can't connect the dots." -Bloomberg

 

Congress should be shot, now that's irony for you...

 

I don't think we learn anything. We sacrificed through two world wars, and sold our children's lifes during vietnam. We don't learn. There are too many males that feel their manhood rests on owning a gun.

 

Our current adminstration feels it's superior because it has attained the biggest nuclear cock/dildo out there.

 

Strange how we get so upset when other countries might want to follow suit.

 

Why should Iran want one? Israel, India and Pakistan have their own nuclear boners.

 

1977 London (The queens silver jubilee of her reign)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8z2M_hpoPwk

based on this reason
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4bM_l443VV4

because
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ci5SZx3VI_U&mode=related&search=

and so
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hjyqpxkKJCM&mode=related&search=

man the queen died a long time ago

 

duplicated

 

Lithiums a friggin troll and his posts are designed to undermine anti gun law argumenmts I saw it from the start so did others - people arent that stupid ! One minute he posts against gunlaws the next post he undermines the argument with demonstrable actions so as to simply either just ignore that some people are interested in seeing a worldwide gun ban or to just wind both sides up ! one way or another its troll tactics

 

As stated, it's not mine. I live with someone who works with a licensed game shoot and shoots seasonal game. I don't particularly like the fact but it's his lawful right to do so and it's safely locked up all the time.

This doesn't really have anything to do with my views. I am a strict vegetarian, I live with people who eat meat - does that undermine my vegetarianism?

The palpable ignorance of sentient's post deserves no response.