"Gun town U.S.A." Not a murder in 25 years!!!

i think we're all guilty of this and this is why these "debates" go back and forth uglier and uglier. people get frustrated when they're not heard or understood, i know i am. i don't like people to extrapolate assumptions about my attitudes on other topics based on my answer on something entirely different.

i don't know how to cure the socio/economic ills of this world, but i do know that useless gun control laws aren't going to do it. it seems like basic sense to me. so discussing gun ownership and trying to link it to society's ills makes no sense at all to me. it's a wag the dog discussion, cart before the horse, or whatever other metaphor that will help you understand.

 

But as you said how individualism isn't always positive, right wing ideas are not always negative

And yes, pro-gunners do generally use the protection idea for their view, but is it any different then anti-gunners using violence for their views? They both have a legitimate and valid point on both sides.

Defense, hunting or sport aside, it's none of those that make any difference to me, any pro or anti gun statistics aside, the point it comes down to is people have the philosophical and natural right to own a gun, and if in 3,000 years we have laser blaster guns and light sabers like in Star Wars, then people should have a right to own blasters and light sabers.


As for the police thing, getting rid of the police all together is just a plain bad idea, but it could work as an idea to lessen the need of so many police. Or it could backfire. Like this town, on one side I can say having everyone in the town have a gun worked out in a spectacular way. To play devil's advocate against myself though, I can just say that not having a murder for 25 years in a suburb of that size is generally the norm and it's falling crime rates can be attributed to the general massive decline of violent crime all over the US since the late 80's-early 90's

 

"As in - look I’ve got a gun I can defend myself and my property, why should I pay so much in taxes to a ‘blotted’ police force – anyway there’s not much crime around here it’s over in the black areas of town and why should I pay to have police down there, hell if those people want to kill each other let them, if they come up here, I’ve got my gun, just let them try anything. We only need enough police to contain the violence in those areas any more is a waste. "

balbus, this is where i personally get offended. perhaps many do think that way. but certainly not all, certainly not myself or anyone i know, as a matter of fact. it's aggravating to have this automatically inserted into every conversation about guns. it's an ugly assumption based on one particularly noisy segment of society.

 

It might be interesting to note that Alabama and Germany are about the same size and population.

Perhaps but I doubt the people who live in Alabama did that.

It’s only natural that would happen, just as that is probably what is happening in Alabama. But people in the Ukraine are probably not all that concerned about what happened in Germany and well, I live about that far away from Alabama.

I think what you may be forgetting is the actual size of the US. I asked one visitor what surprised him the most about the US and he said the sheer size of it, even people who live here sometimes don’t realize how big it really is.

There are national parks here bigger than the UK.

So, while wondering what happened in Alabama or Germany for that matter is only normal; questioning how I live my life on a deep soul searching level about something that happened a thousand miles away might be asking a little much. Really did you do a lot of deep soul searching about your life because of what happened in Alabama and Germany?

People in the US for the most part see it that way too.

I can’t speak for everybody in the US but speaking for myself and those I’ve discussed things like this with, Americans seem to be inclined to do that as much as anybody.

 

excellent post, i especially agree with the last bit.

 

As for your implied question here of:

If I cared so much for “societal problems”, why don’t I post in the Political forum more often?

First I don’t believe that there is a political solution to “societal problems” and in fact I tend to believe that politics is probably one of the biggest causes of “societal problems”.

Second I don’t generally go to forums, I go to new posts and see if anything sounds interesting to discuss and just go to that thread and what forum it’s in is not really a consideration to me. I guess what you guys talk about generally just doesn’t seem that interesting.

 

Maybe you should move to a different country or find a home right next to the Police Station if you want immediate protection.

 

Honestly, I don't think individuals should live in a chaotic anarchist world where they are policing themselves on a whim and free to use guns on each other as protection.

Lethal weapons are not as safe as non-lethal weapons. I'd rather see peace-loving free individuals pursue other avenues than latching onto the idea that you bring a gun to gun fight. If we keep this kind of mentality, in my view, we are no better than the warmongers, oppressive dictators and arms dealers. We're just perpetuating a system that needs to respond to violence with violence.

Shame on you.

 

Totally.

But I disagree completely with the second half. I don't think we can ignore weapons in the home and think it has zero impact on how we live as a society.

Peace.

 

Also, the many pro-gun ownershipers in this thread are under the impression that since the government has the use of guns and weapons, in reaction all citizens should be armed just in case there is ever a need to fight back.

The USA is already the country with the most armed citizens on the planet.

This logic is kind of backwards and archaic in my view. When have we ever been able to fight fire with fire and win? Gotta use water man. Put down the weapons. We're going to have to at some point.

 

i wasnt saying it to complain,merely to point out how narrow minded and short sighted your statement was because it was a generalization made without factoring in rural areas..

i dont want immediate protection from others, i can take care of my own.. thats another thing guns are good for..

 

I live in Canada. Everything here is rural. Believe me, I've considered it at long sight.

 

there is only 1 reason why i will own guns in the future

and that will be to aid in torturing other humans

 

planning on joining obamas national civilian security force are ya??

 

Why? I believe he happens to like living right where he is and you seem to have a logics problem because not every body in the US can live next to a police station. That is unless you are saying you want all to move into concentration camps.

I don't think individuals should live in a chaotic anarchist world either but what are you going to do about it?

As for the policing themselves on a whim, I don’t think anybody is saying that but on the other hand, have you had much experience with letting the police do the policing. I have and I can’t speak for Canada but in the US, well let’s just say, are you familiar with the Keystone Kops? Now put them in swat gear and give them automatic assault rifles. They are not so funny any more.

As for free to use guns on each other as protection, you make sound like we’re still living in the old west with gun fights on every corner. We’re just not.

Actually neither is safe. Chairs aren’t safe, yet we don’t make everybody sit on the floor and we don’t put seat belts on them. I mean a baseball bat is a lethal weapon are also advocating a ban on baseball bats?

They do. They pursue all kind of other options. But the problem lies in that having a free society some may not want to let others just kill them and may even want the freedom to defend themselves, are you going to tell them they’re free but not that free. That in that case they will only be free to be dead.

Once again, I don’t feel that this is perpetuating a system that needs to respond to violence with violence, just because we are talking about self defense doesn’t mean we believe that in every case there is a need to respond to violence with violence. In any good self defense course they will tell you that the best self defense in the world and in all cases is to avoid all situations that might lead to a violent confrontation and the second best is to run away, unless that is just not possible.

What do consider a weapon to be? Some believe that almost anything can be used as a weapon. So do we eliminate from our house any kitchen knife with a blade longer than two inches? No more baseball bats because you could kill someone with it. How far do you want to go to make sure there are no weapons in the house?

That is what the constitution says and yes, many believe that is what they should do.

And so?

Actually fire fighters do it all the time and it seems to work for them.

Weapons, yes but guns, no.

 

no, this is a solo thing i'm going to do

 

If people are so in favour of defending themselves, why not take a self defense class, get a dog, install a safe room, etc.?

Why is it necessary to be able to have the right to protect yourself behind the barrel of a gun? Are you just lazy?

 

can you guarantee that everyone you would need to defend yourself against would not have a gun?? of course not..

install a safe room?? lol.. aren't we a miss money pants...

the logic,or in my opinion lack thereof in this thread is just fucking hilarious to me..
it truly goes to show just how different cultures and the thought processes within them are..

 

lazy? i want to inflict a lot of pain. shooting out there kneecaps is for shit and giggles

then i can really get to the fun stuff with my other weapons

 

Well, I can't guarantee that everyone I would need to defend myself against would not have a bazooka, a tank or a killer dog. Is a gun supposed to make people feel safe?

Bill, in your opinion, why should people rely on a gun to make themselves feel safe?