"Gun town U.S.A." Not a murder in 25 years!!!

Mad

(And thanks once more for a rational and reasoned reply)

A lot of people have and would disagree –

The Conscience of a liberal by Paul Krugman pg. 127

A Brief History of Neoliberalism by David Harvey pg 16

That points to deep seated economic problems within the US system which have manifested themselves recently but have as yet to be resolved.

In fact many the financial sector seem happy for bail out now (getting the people to pay for the systems failings) but wish to bring back the failed neo-liberal policies back in when things recover (meaning the vast majority of the people would gain little).

In other words an untenable economic model.

The US wasn’t doing fine before the collapse it was heading for the collapse and if it doesn’t do something about it the collapses will get worse.

I’ve written at length about this in other threads any other further discussion on this should go to one of them.

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What are the social problems of the US?

What are there causes?

Googling it, I found a few things kept coming up

Education – causes for the problems seem to be about funding.
Healthcare – again funding
Inequality – wages, employment and the rise of a plutocracy.

All these would seem to have an economic aspect.

And to me they also seem to stem from failed right wing policies or because they’ve been ignored.

Again I’ve talked about these things before at some length so let’s discuss them elsewhere.

**

What I’m trying to say is that the US seems to have more pressing problems that should be address rather than been sidetracked by right wingers who’d prefer to bring up ‘god, guns and gays’ because it doesn’t have any constructive ideas.

Because that is what I’ve seen here, pro-gunners whose only interest seems to be to promote guns seemingly as a way to tackle societal problems that seem on the whole unwilling or unable to talk about those societal problems or any alternatives to tackling them.

**

 

seems the same exact thing could be said for the left as well..

you cant blame the focus on these issues on one side,
after all it takes two to tango and if it wasnt for the left focusing on these things the right wouldnt have a reason to defend there beliefs on them now would they ??

i say live and let live personally. obviously the extreme right as well as the extreme left sees it differently.

so damn the gun debate, let people own what they want and move on to more important issues.

but something tells me that simply wont do for the left,which only serves to prove my point.

 

Debate 101 – Ad Hominem: an argument that attacks the person who holds a view or advances an argument, rather than commenting on the view or responding to the argument. Please stop doing this, it is getting rather boring.

Since in this post, besides your usual name calling, you actually make an attempt at debate, I’ll actually answer you.

You keep on talking like, thinking that there is a remote possibility that a person could someday be attacked by a violent criminal, ‘psycho’ or ‘knife wheeling rapist’ is the same fear level as actually being attacked by a violent criminal, ‘psycho’ or ‘knife wheeling rapist’. It’s just not.

As you were probably trying to say; Any sane person would see that as ridiculous.

As I was pointing out with my umbrella illustration, the level of fear that a person in the US feels about the remote possibility that he could someday be attacked by a violent criminal, ‘psycho’ or ‘knife wheeling rapist’ is about the same as how you, Balbus feel about getting rained on.

Yes, there are as you say big differences between a gun and an umbrella, one being that an umbrella’s sole purpose is protection and is thus bought strictly out of fear, no matter how slight you may say that fear is. Where as a gun has many purposes and thus even if one of the reasons a person buys a gun is the fear of the remote possibility that he could someday be attacked by a violent criminal, ‘psycho’ or ‘knife wheeling rapist’. That fear is very low level fear and is made even less by the fact that the gun was probably bought with other purposes in mind and thus the “fear factor” is in many cases even less than the fear that caused the buying of an umbrella.

So, while I have to agree that some level of "fear" might enter into the ownership of a gun; that fear level for most gun owners is so low that it doesn’t warrant your constant harping on the subject.

Now if you would please actually contribute to the discussion, like answering some of the questions you’ve been asked, instead of just blowing them off with your smoke screen of name calling; that would be nice.

 

"Before all else, be armed." Niccolo Machiavelli

 

Quite honestly, what did you expect in a thread called "Gun town U.S.A." Not a murder in 25 years!!!”?

Did you really think that this thread was going to be anything but what the title implied it was going to be?

Did you really think that with this title that no one would mention the possibility that there might be a correlation between gun ownership and lower rates of violence?

Where in the world did you get the impression that this tread was going to be a discussion of all the societal problems of the US?

Did you really think the title implied a deep discussion of hunger, homelessness, unemployment, a poor educational system, financial problems, drug addiction and racial injustice?

From the title, this thread is exactly what it implies, a discussion that gun ownership may not lead to the violence some people think it does and that gun ownership may not be as bad as many make it out to be.

Yet you keep saying that, in a thread that is not about all the societal problems of the US and is talking about gun ownership not being necessarily a bad thing, Pro-gunners are using gun ownership to ignore societal problems, how do you figure?

Sure some have stepped outside the bounds of this thread to engage in your “debate”, just so you don't feel left out but the fact remains this thread is about gun ownership and how it relates to violence and not about all the societal problems of the US and their solutions.

 

...I own guns because I target shoot...

it's not "for protection" or any shit like that, using a gun for protection is hard if not impossible, I'd rather know how to improvise weapons from the things in my house (a 45 lb weight bar is going to stop someone if you hit them with it, simple as that)

people who actually care about guns, typically are not owning them because they are scared, I mean, I have seen water cooled 50 caliber rifles that couldn't be used for anything but bench target shooting.

this debate is needlessly personal, needlessly long.

 

Yeah but I bet you're probably afraid that if you don't get those targets first, that one night they're going to break in your house and attack you in your sleep.

 

This thread was moved because of a CONSPIRACY AGAINST BALBUS!!!


ZOMG

 

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what a fucking joke..

everyone should boycott the politics forum period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fyrenza and i both have personal forums yall are welcome to post threads in. or just post them here,..

thats bullshit.

 

So it's kind of like the Autobahn, least crash rate of any major road in the world.

 

I guess someone decided that gun ownership and its negative affect on violence is a Conspiracy.
I wonder who might have thought that?

Does this mean we won't hear from Balbus or Aristartle any more because this thread is no longer in Politics?

 

oh in this thread you can bank on balbus not replying.

 

Cripes...

i posted to this thread while it was being shifted,

back and forth,

and my post got lost, i guess...

Bummer.

 

Is this a typical political solution to a problem? Sweep it under the rug or move it so it’s someone else’s problem? Is this the same solution that they have for societal problems? Yeah, that ought to fix them.

 

We're now in Conspiracy so the change of forums must have been a Conspiracy to make you lose your post!

 

lol,seems to be balbus's solution. i know of no less than a dozen threads that have either been deleted or moved in the last 30 or so days alone from politics..

see what it boils down to is if it doesnt support his socialist views or if he cant minimize it or twist it to make a issue he disagrees with look bad he deletes it or moves it.

look at it as a sign of victory. he couldnt turn it to his favor so he moved it.

the way he moderates really is gutless and pathetically sad in my opinion,but complaining does no good so all we can really do is laugh at it all..

 

The strange thing is:

It was in Politics,

then it was moved to Conspiracy,

then it was removed,

then it showed BACK up in Politics,

and now it's BACK in Conspiracy.

i know because i opened another window while doing the post, so that i could go back to something that had been said earlier,

and saw it moving all over!

 

I think I'm getting motion sickness!

 

Hi everyone

I'm unsure who moved this thread to conspiracy or why, it didn't seem to have much conspiracy in it, if any ,so i think this might be a mistake or misunderstanding.

Anyway for the moment, i'm moving it back to Politics.

Balbus

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Everybody hold on we're moving again!