God is Love?

Nature is greater than any individual, but I fail to see any evidence for a "god" other than that man has created for himself and his minions.

People always say "God's ways are greater than man"...really? Who said? Man? Because we know "God" didn't say it, because he never "said" anything. Marx was wrong, religion isn't the opiate of the masses-- "God" is. Religion is the twin cousin of the State--they are both here to fuck up your individual freedom based on fear.

Both operate from a pleasure/pain principle.

 

if you can use IF'S than so can i, and that can stand as a valad argument as well...you cannot play one side of the fence..

IF the Universe is NOT the whole of existing things, then it is possible

i know what probobly not what you mean, but still, if it is, it cant be used validly cause both side [god vs absense of god] can use it, so it basically cancells each other out

 

when we start to view ourselves as a whole ... as a one ...then that is far greater in thinking ...and just far greator ...

 

Ok, guys. Perhaps you all can believe in something that contradicts the laws of physics (thus making them void)...I, however, know that you don't have to KNOW everything to know that something violates the principles which we've discovered through our scientific and philosophical progress. You can hang out to your fantasies and that is fine, but please don't try to use philosophical FALLACIES in your argument, because they fail.

This "Argument for Ignorance" fallacy, which I mentioned earlier, seems to be the favorite around here.

Burby, the reason I used "IF" is because we codify the "Universe" as the whole of existing things. Not just the observable universe, but the entire sphere of existing things. Many scientists have referred to mutiple universes as "the" universe kind of narrows it down to a "whole THING", not the whole of existing things.

Using the "argument from ignorance", we can make anything possible. For instance, I believe that there is an Invisible, Intangible Pink Elephant who lives in the sky. First of all, if I say that there is a pink elephant outside of your house, then you expect to be able to detect (in some way) that this is true. First you try to see it, but you see nothing. My answer? "The pink elephant is invisible." So, then you go outside and try to touch or feel for the invisible pink elephant, you feel nothing. My answer? "The invisible pink elephant is also intangible." You cannot see or touch the entity I say is there. So, you sniff the area and try to pick up an aroma of an elephant (assuming you are remotely familiar with it) or dung or anything which would lend credence to my statement. You can pick up no evidence through smell either. Neither can you hear any movement. Taste? Well, that wouldn't do much good in this way, but supposed after trying all five senses you detect nothing.
You may try to use reason. Ok, we know that there have been no circuses around lately. No "escaped elephants" on the news. Elephants don't usually roam around the neighborhood. And you cannot detect that there is an elephant using all of your senses. Thus, you logically conclude that the elephant doesn't exist. But, suppose I say, "I know the elephant is there. I have a certain gift of detection that goes beyond my five senses and beyond the limits of logic." Then you question my sanity, right? I say, "You cannot prove the elephant does not exist." And you know I am right! You CANNOT disprove the existence of this entity that I say exists and is on your front lawn. However, by using both rational and empirical testing you determine that the elephant doesn't exist although you cannot PROVE it. My argument is then, "If you cannot disprove it, you should believe it. Otherwise the elephant may be angered and destroy your lawn and your home." Should you believe it? Is your lawn, home, even your family in danger?

Let's look at the risks. If you believe in the elephant and it exists, you are safe--the best possible outcome (4). If you believe and the elephant doesn't exist, nothing happens--(2). However, if you disbelieve and the elephant doesn't exist, again, nothing happens--(2). But, if you disbelieve and the elephant exists, you are in terrible danger--the worst possible outcome (1). So, the logical gamble is to believe the elephant exists. Because the risk is greater if you don't and the elephant does exist. The risk is twice as great against you if you disbelieve and no "good" outcome can happen, only a bad one or none at all. But, if you do believe, then a good outcome or no outcome. Thus, you should believe in the elephant.

The logical argument is really a fallacy (used by Blaise Pascal about God).

It assumes no risk if you believe in the elephant. That is false. If you believe in a pink elephant outside on your lawn you will act irrationally. You have no evidence. You will not leave your house, but a certain way (if at all). Your children may not play in the yard. More and more, you will experience erratic, not rational behavior and finally you may lose everything...including your mind. This is risk is great and equals a horrible outcome. However, sense your reason and senses have concluded there is no pink elephant and your risk of insanity is increased if you believe in this entity without reason, then the best possible solution is to look at the burden of proof (which is own my shoulders) and disbelieve in the entity.

Now, what about God? We cannot see, touch, smell, hear, or taste God. You cannot logically detect God, but through what we conceive to be our limited knowledge of the Universe. But, ultimately, this PROVES nothing. The Bible is full of inconsistencies, absurdities, slaughters (in the name of God), and contradictory (at least seemingly) statements. Christians are divided into hundreds of different sects and all compete with one another. The entire religion is built on "Faith" (believing against all odds) and "Spirit" (a transcendent realm).

 

nice metaphor =)

 

ok, so whos to say that Heaven isnt a physical place...[i dont beleive so, cause well, soulds and whatnot aret a physical thing so whatever, and i know your probobly going to get on me for this one, but i dont care]...can something exist without being physical?

emotions exist...memories exist...hell, even photons exist, and they arent physical at all, they are energy...



i do agree that the whole "if" is a horrible argument, and the only reason i used it was to try and get rid of your "if" argument...


please be known, i do not rely on blind faith, and i had never went to religion because someone directed me to...im am an odd duck in my family, starting with a very multi-faith aproach a year ago [chanting hare krsna, and singing along to A is for Allah] but in the past couple motnths i found myself only thinking towards Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit...


and about how "faith" is believe againdst all odds...much of science [and i am a scientific man, im not one of these "close minded Bible bumpers" as so many peopel think everyone is on here] was, and still is conducted along these lines [although to a very smaller extent]

 

Emotions and memories are subjective to those who experience them. They are not objective. HOWEVER, they come from your brain--which IS physical. Emotions and memories are not "real" in the objective sense, but are perception only. Emotions can change with the wind, and memories are only reflections of past experiences.

Actually, energy IS matter, and matter is energy. This was proved by Einstein in 1905. They are the same, yet different in various states. Everything that is natural is MATTER. Matter cannot be created or destroyed but can only change form. Thus, memories and emotions are reflections which come from the physical brain due to stimulation and are strictly neurological.

EVERYTHING emotional comes from your brain, not your "heart". Your heart is an organ which pumps blood. We all know that. Your "heart" is a metaphor for affections which come from the brain.

 

yeah, you got me there, in the energy is matter...that i did forget [oops]


still either way, there is no end to this silly debate...i have to go get ready for my grandparent anniversary

 

That's great! Have a good time, man.

 

arrghghghg .. perception always never ending ..lol .. good stuff....to think on ....me too ...outta here ...I gotta see my mom for her Birthday ..

 

Have fun...

 

God just told me to stop thinking about religion for a few days and go work on my tan.

 

Yeah, Satan told me that I needed to pop some MGs.

 

What's an MG?

 

Morning Glory seeds

 

MG seeds .. mmm what comes of the hard shell when you cut it a little ...but are you ingesting it ? On the way back home ...BTW we were talking about it and looking at some this afternoon ..the real mornign glories .interesting coincidence ..in some ways ...a person can be everywhere at once ..

 

I never drink or trip without preparation. The setting and mood has to be perfect and you have to prepare ahead of time well. Also, I never do hard drugs or illegal drugs due to the fact that I am not fonding prison time. Only legal substances and alcohol. I am ADAMANTLY in favor of legalizing marijuana, but I never smoke it.

I am constantly finding natural ways to alter my consciousness without fear of BIG BROTHER. Whether this be through herbs, plants, chemicals (although I am not fond of these, really) and or sleep deprivation.

I also prepare special ways for sexual experiences which can be an intense altered state as well.

 

Well, God is love. I guess he LOVES us enough to burn us to a cinder.

Damn, I guess if that is love, I need to go home and beat the hell out of my wife and kids, set my cat on fire and shoot the dog. GLORY!!!!!!

 

all that is man ...working his own free will .....there are contrasts in the world so that there is balance .. we could skapegoat just about anything in the name of anything .. so its all a matter of perspective ...

 

libe you said
Now, what about God? We cannot see, touch, smell, hear, or taste God. You cannot logically detect God, but through what we conceive to be our limited knowledge of the Universe.

It cannot be proven in the way expected of us either way .. becuase almost anyone can make thier own definition of what they feel God is in their eyes ...mind .. and comprehension ...and they should state first what their personally interpretation is of God is to better understand why we have these contrasts ...before getting further into this debate ..discussion for it hold weight ......and focus on the statement ...what does God is Love ..mean ...?

The main thing is that we not enforce our ideals ...vision ..belief upon each other ...I think its brilliant to share....see the contrasts .. explore as a whole, but when I hear the words "fuck" those this that and the other .. and see fingers start to point ..all points .. arguments ...facts seem to lose credibility and weight....for those who believe ....There are those who represent God in a false way and those who represent God in a gentle way ...and it really doesnt matter so long as you can recognize the difference ...you are intelligent enough to do so if you got this far ...as you and I know its their problem if they are willingly ignorant as anything in life .. for example I have been burned by men or woman that were liers and cheats in my life .. but I dont label all men or woman just on account of my past experiences ...stupid stories ... false interpretations ..and skapegoating .. I mean really question "everyone" ..not in a riot way .. and not just authority .. a person should question even themselves ...and not use knowledge to abuse or slander the true nature of "any" given belief ...anybody can be given a job or duty and be trusted to do the best that they can with it .. but still screw it up becuase they dont understand the true vision or purpose ...so bad apples should not screw it up for everyone else ...the statement God is Love ...is meant to reflect that God is everything to those who believe in God ...the good ..the bad.. all of it ...and what man does with it is mans given free will ...so we have nobody to blame other than ouselves ....the free will is what seperates us ...but becuase of how were are made up ...from a scientific standpoint ..is why we are one .. is why we are a reflection .. but its only a reflection ...nothing more ..what lies beneath thanks to free will...is a whole new matter .. so everytime a dumb ass does something stupid we cant turn around and say to him things like "Where is your God now .." I mean that is just petty ....I think the real problem is that humans ..as we are have yet to learn to use our minds to their fullest capacity ...or there would be alot more understanding and peace ... we rather tend to lean toward segregation of all sorts ...how that contributes to a productive existence is beyond me ...perhaps it is there for balance ...and creating a will for progression .. but once again most humans abuse what even progress is meant to be .....progress to them is based on material gain ..etc ..there are so many possibilites and that is why its easy to get of the point ..lol ...so if God didnt have a name ..and if God were not some giant invisible entity in the sky ...and so on .. what would I refer to something ..anything larger than myself or this earth ..I am sure I would try to name it ...and its my hope that if it entails all that there is that it would include love ..that is all