God is an atheist

It's interesting that you bring up the whole idea of god being 'created'... It's one classic and fundamental flaw in the argument used by creationists - who created god? If god created us, and there is no way that we could exist without his help, who created god..... they all tend to go shy at that point and shut up... nevermind eh

 

or perhaps he means that whether you believe in god or not, it wouldnt have an affect on whether he was real or not (whether he is real or not).

isnt that what you were trying to say, colours?

 

You ever consider that God always exists?

 

I don't think that holds with the current logical understanding of the universe... If god has always existed, then why can't the universe have always existed? In one form or another? Why does it have to fall to god to do these things?

 

Simple. Since God created the universe it didn't always exist. Create implies something...

It doesn't "have to fall to God". It is just an accurate description to say "God created the universe." It's simply incorrect to say otherwise, and basing your knowledge on an incorrect fact will lead you into many misconceptions.

Of course, you need God to show you this, so it is not your fault for being stupid if you base your knowledge on the incorrect assumption that the universe is some random occurence. God has to teach you that this is not true.

 

man created god to explain ow man was created, ..so you tell me whos the most creative

 

god has high self-esteem

 

Kharakov, you have proof of this do you? Maybe a signed confession from god or something? Something that everyone can see (and don't reply upon faith to see)...

It's just that all of the evidence we currently have points AWAY from this....

 

"One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

i deny your existence, does that mean you dont exist?

err yeah, i meant you can be an athiest, but there still be a god.

 

Like a 3 year old kid who 'bakes' a cake.

 

Are you quite sure you're an agnostic?

 

Yes. It's only hearsay if you haven't experienced it.

a) Things happen around me that are synchronous with what I am thinking internally.
b) I can see God's spirit everywhere (God is beautiful) shining through everything.
c) I hear God's voice speaking to me around me when God directs my attention at God's spirit.
d) plenty of stuff happens around me that reveals God's existence and control over things.

When the stuff first started happening, it freaked me out. I didn't have any conception of God. Usually, I was very outgoing everywhere, I was always part of the conversations at parties, loud, having a blast. Well, at this one party I was quiet, not talking much, just thinking about stuff and observing people around me.

I noticed that 'they' would change the topic of conversations to stuff that matched my internal thoughts. It really freaked me out when I walked to another part of the party and the people I was standing next to started talking about what I was thinking without any prompting from me. Of course, now I know that God controls everything, but back then... wooo.. It was fuckin scary.

You don't need that. You just need God to show you the way things work. I can tell you, but without seeing for yourself, you won't really have an understanding of it. It's the difference between working on a car and reading a book about working on a car, you can learn details from the book if you have already worked on a car a little bit, but you need that hands on experience to really understand what the book is about.

Not at all. Can you name one thing that you think points away from God's existence?

 

No, he's my best Arch Nemesis. We are best nemesises (me and Colours).

 

what should i be?

 

Sorry, but that's a pathetic argument... I can PROVE I exist... the simple fact that you addressed this message to me goes somewhat towards that (after all, if you don't believe in me, who are you talking to?).

Here I am, right now, writing this message to you now. You can take the IP address of this post, check it against a database of I addresses and see that it belongs to Bulldog ADSL, you can then (in theory) go to Bulldog and ask who used this IP address at this time, and they'll say "oh yes, that's Isabelle Hollands' account, but no doubt her son, Daniel Hollands was using it at the time" (well, they would if the Data Protection Act didn't prevent it ).

Too complicated? OK, how about this, go to my website (http://theworldofdan.co.uk/) and you'll see my home address.... come and pay me a visit.. I'll happily invite you in and we can talk about *whatever*

No leaps of faith required, no hours upon hours of praying, clinging onto the most tiny of *possable* signs... just me a cup of tea, and if you're really lucky, i'll give you some biscutes too.

Well.... you can be whatever you want to be, I'm just going by your profile.. it says agnostic... and for an agnostic person.... well.... you're not very agnostic (mind you, I think you are, you just enjoy playing devils advocate )

Hold that thought.... I have a whole list of them.. but I need to sort them out first.

 

"Sorry, but that's a pathetic argument... I can PROVE I exist... the simple fact that you addressed this message to me goes somewhat towards that (after all, if you don't believe in me, who are you talking to?)."

I was just pointing out that you can believe what you want to believe, but the truth is out there.

 

I'm no doubt sure that the truth is out there, but as I said before, currently all the evidence we have points in the other direction - plus, if god REALLY wanted to be known about, etc... (after all,we're all meant to suck up to him right? to stop the bastard from throwing us into hell, right?) he would write his name in the sky - we'd be able to talk directly to him, much like I'm talking to you, we'd be able to go around his house and have cups of tea, etc..... but we can't... we're asked to believe and have faith, with nothing substancial to back it up....... sounds like con of the millenium...

 

but thats the point of faith. Hence, 'leap of faith'. There wouldnt really be a point to heaven if it was that easy to believe.

 

Sorry, but that's theistic bullshit... powerful men who are looking to become even more powerful and enslave people use bullshit excuses like that... But it doesn't hold up to reason or logic.

So what? I get to go to heaven just because some preacher on the TV told me to believe in jesus? and while i'm at it send him all my money so he can clean my soul? As I said before, it's all a con. Even the 'honest' ones, people who are trying to 'save you' for no reason other than because they think they're doing what's needed, and don't want anything in return, are only doing it because they're told to by the people with the power.






What you're saying is that, if I come to you, with a bottle of liquid and told you that it would cure cancer.... (because god has blessed it, or some crashpot scientific discovery in my back garden lab, etc.... whatever excuse I give you)... you would be happy to take a 'leap of faith' on this product without me needing to tell you anything about it, about how I made it, what's in it, etc.... My word alone would be enough for you?

No, of cource you won't... at least if you're an intellegent person..

But that's exactly what they're trying to do with god... "hi, you can't see him, and he'll never contact you, but there is a pixie in the sky that will send you to heaven (somewhere i've never been, but i hear it's really nice) if you believe in him.... and if you don't, he'll throw you into hell (again, never been, but i hear it's a bit hot down there).."

Please, pull the other one, it has bells on.

 

you seem to have a quarrell with christianity alone.