God does not exist

dam shameless ..ay..oh i made this picture...i think it expresses something.

 

Still life with Ganesha and jumbo espresso?! :-D


Inkgal:

Wouldn't the minds 'absolution' automatically cover such a thing?

No wonder there is no absolute mind.

 

I'm being metaphorical. Far be it from me to claim that I know what God is. I doubt that (S)he's the Dude in the Sky. I find the experience of existence to be mind-blowing, and like lots of scientists, including some who are atheists, I find the multiverse awesome. Most of the scientific writers and metaphysicians who use rationalistic arguments for God in the design of the universe and the laws of nature seem, at best, to be pointing to something like Aristotle's Unmoved Mover, which would be consistent with deism, or possibly Spinoza's panentheism. Those are interesting possibilities, but I'm closer to Tillich and Joseph Campbell in thinking of God as, among other things, a metaphor for ultimate meaning, which is similar to the outlook of most Progressive Christians I take fellowship with. I find the teachings and example of Jesus to be inspiring as the savior for society's rejects--my kind of guy and somebody to bet my life on. What interests me at WalMart are the people in all their diversity--certainly not the products or the corporation (Sorry, Mitt. Corporations aren't my kind of people). I had a life-changing moment of clarity (religious experience, psychotic break, whatever) a few years back triggered by the passage in Genesis that humans are created in the image and likeness of God. Do I believe Genesis is literal truth? Hell, no, but it's a great metaphor! So is Jesus' idea that we can tell the false prophets from the true ones by their fruits. To me, the important thing about a religion or philosophy is how those adhering to it relate to life and others around them. My beliefs produce effects in me and others that I like. The framework that I use seems to "work" for me, in the pragmatist sense of the word.

Philosophically, the strains of thought that have had the most influence on me are pragmatism, existentialism, and fideism, although I'm probably more of a rationalist than most people who resonate with those perspectives. The thinkers I'm closest to are probably Martin Gardner, in The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener, (which draws in turn on William James, Charles Peirce and Miguel Unamuno) and Viktor Fankl's Man's Search for Meaning.

Sure we can, as long as we're prepared to take the consequences. Drawing on his experiences in a Nazi concentration camp, Frankl noticed that the survivors were the ones who found something to give meaning to their lives, even in those circumstances. There isn't a single "one size fits all" meaning. For some, it was a ray of sunlight; for others the memory of a loved one. But not everything will give satisfying, lasting meaning. People who try to find meaning in sex, drugs, wealth, power, status and similar ephemera are likely to end up disappointed. We can bet on any horse we want, all the way to the very end, but the test is what verdict we pass on the quality of our life when we reach that point.

I'd add the proviso that whatever we believe should at least be consistent with the known facts, science, and logic, and be based on substantial evidence--enough to convince a reasonable person to adopt a position, even though other reasonable people might adopt a different position. As long as it's reasonable, we can both disagree and be right--a win-win for both of us.

 

Okie:

So the 'test' is at the end of life? How final! Do we die of not finding meaning? If so, then we'd better get over 'god' lol

We're all eachothers meaning.

 

I think we can sense the satisfaction of a eudaimonic life much earlier than the end. We don't die of not finding meaning, but our lives will be more satisfying if we do.

 

No I'll concede I'm not very good with the name game, I couldn't even tell you who initially theorized the Earth revolved around the sun. (although I know Galileo was an important figure with this knowledge)

As far as your religious questions, I think they were addressed better than I could have done myself and produced intriguing dialogue.

 

Okiefreak thanks for your very stimulating post I enjoyed it very much.
Joseph Campbell is one of my most favored comparative religious commentators.
My most favored lines of his are.” “Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life.” It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.” However I found it a tad distressing when he turned round and stated that because of his profound and protracted cross religious studies he was not the sort of person who was going to have a “spiritual awakening” I found this an odd statement as I would have imagined that he knowing so much about social and cultural religious templates could understand better than most.
WARNING :Cut n paste http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell
According to Campbell, the absolute mysteries of life cannot be captured directly in words or images. Myths are "being statements"[27] and the experience of this mystery can be had only through a participation in mythic rituals or the contemplation of mythic symbols that point beyond themselves. "Mythological symbols touch and exhilarate centers of life beyond the reach of reason and coercion.... The first function of mythology is to reconcile waking consciousness to the mysterium tremendum et fascinans of this universe as it is.
End Cut n paste
Yeah that’s a mouthful.
But yeah…I think joseph campbell was one of the greats of the 20th century.
Oh Okiefreak you are involved in progressive Christianity. I state that I am Christian also.
Christ ..yeah Jesus I ask Jesus every day to forgive me my shortcomings my evil my stupidity and most of all my laziness… the powers that be must get sick of me as I ask this allot.
Do I feel guilty?..not really just human and full of unfulfilled potential.
I could go on regarding Christianity but I will not. For me it’s a personal relationship with Jesus and really a pretty private experience.
“So the 'test' is at the end of life? How final! Do we die of not finding meaning? If so, then we'd better get over 'god' lol
We're all each others meaning. “
I do not think life has any meaning ultimately …not allot happened in the big picture..in this overwhelmingly vast universe of time and space. not to mention the beings that exist and operate on other vibrational frequencies of which there are many.
“All each others meaning”
I really like that statement as yes my meaning exists in a social matrix. That’s why I need to communicate, exchange concepts and soften my …at times… bombastic self opinionated kinda semi dum f… attitude. sorry bout that.
Oh it’s a good thread…yeah
I think religion is a product of the intellect. its relative to a system of self reference and limited reference. the fact is that some people use it to lord power over others cause wars ,unspeakable human suffering and disrupt life to such an extent that it is tantamount to a major violation of human rights. a typical example of this is when i asked a Jehovas witness why do they discourage higher education. the answer was that the end was so close it would be useless. the real adjender was to limit the flocks frame of reference..but we all know that game. most religions do it in order to control people and oh...yes the money ....yes Gallons Of Rubbing Alcohol Flow Through The Strip ..

​

So what was the question?​

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Umm…“Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life.” Oh yeah..i agree with that.
Okiefreak are you interested in other systems of meaning?
Thanks again for your post.
Almost dawn..time to go to work.
Cheers ink8290

 

Thanks for the kind feedback. It seems we're very much on the same wavelength. You as if I'm into other systems of meaning. Yes, all of them. I study comparative religion and philosophy, as well as science and atheism. Every waking second of life is meaningful to me.

 

I'm thinking maybe somebody who specializes on Middle East politics, foreign policy, or public policy might influence my vote. But they tend to be less quantitative and more "impressionistic" than the American politics folks. "Scientists" in name only. But that's not so bad. Thanks for your comments.

 

yeah okeyfreak?....its a big universe ay. Einstein though it was never ending....later physisists have proposed and other vectors of thought....however one cannot deny.....its a wide open road.
oh heres one of my favourate songs of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp6LT2MdaPI"]FRANK ZAPPA COSMIK DEBRIS - YouTube

now this guy was totally shameless.....and now...unfortunately very very dead.
cheers ink8290

 

oh i love this one too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQiEs32SqQ"]Nickelback - Savin' Me - YouTube

 

There is never an excuse to post a Nickelback song.

 

Quoted for Emphasis

 

"There is never an excuse to post a Nickelback song
'

. hay i do NOT need an excuse.

 

^ that's even worse than if you had one

 

Okie:

So when you say not everything will give lasting meaning, you mean nothing will? lol If one senses lifes satisfaction before its end, why end? It is a puzzle. That a life that could want nothing more than to live itself over again would also have no reason to, being that life.

lol Why use god as a metaphor then? Just in case it turns out to be the "ultimate meaning" you mention? Nothing against a joyous bet as you call it... and you're right, we don't die of not finding meaning, but do you make meaning by betting on it?

 

oh i havnt even got the yime to post a reply to that.

 

Then make the yime!

 

Pointing out typo errors is the most gutless and dastard cyber space fallback that comes to my mind .hay get some content please.could you please be more specific as to your complaint.por favor

 

lol I have no complaint with you ink, or your typos. I like the word yime.