Give me at least 5 good reasons...

which religion is this? sign me up! haha

 

My grandparents went to religiously segregated schools, religion and church were the hub and cornerstone of all communities. Back then If you weren't religious you were dead. Are you telling me Europe was any different 100 years ago? The world is crawling out of a religious dark age, some places faster than others. America is a pretty damn progressives corner of the world in that respect but the last 8 years of the Bush Administration slipped em' back a few notches, that and blew the kneecaps out of the economy to boot.

 

Which is odd, because Jesus said nothing at all about homosexuality. Nothing about abortion either. If you look at the things he preached against, divorce, uncharitableness, and hypocrisy seem to be the big three. Are some politicians in trouble? Abusing children also ranks high.

In relative terms, same-sex relations doesn't seem to have been a major concern in the Bible. The number of references to homosexuality in the Bible is relatively small and ambiguous. In the Old Testament, the tale of Sodom and Gomorah was about gang rape and inhospitality. The "Holiness Code" of Leviticus was promulgated to ensure a clear separation between Hebrews and their Babylonian captors. Separation and clarity of roles was the central theme. So no mixing of meat and milk, sowing two different crops together, mixing different kinds of thread or yarn (no cotton polyester blends), etc. And men must be men in their sexual roles--i.e., dominant--and not use or let others assume a sexually submissive role. Hebrew sexology was also concerned about the wasting of the male seed (sin of Onan), which homosexuality would involve. In the New Testament, most of Paul's condemntaions seem to refer to temple prostitution and pederasty (sexual use of young boys by older men). Romans 1 reflects the prevailing belief in natural law, and the idea that it was "unnatural" to lust after people of the same sex. But the idea of loving, egalitarian relations among same-sex persons was not addressed because it was unknown.

 

You see the problem isn't generally in the explaination, the problem is usually in the listener, even Jesus who was the greatest teacher that ever lived, did not convince everyone he talked to. Some people just don't want to listen.

 

You seem to be over thinking this a bit. The Bible plainly says that Men who lie with Men will not inherit the kingdom. Simply it means those who continue to pursue homosexual acts can't consider themselves Christians. Christianty does not disquailify someone for what they've done but for what they continue to do or practice.

 

A religious dark age?

Religion is responsible for the failed economy?

Well, religion is just the boogyman to you isn't it.

Do you really believe if religion was done away with all mankinds problems would be solved?

As I pointed out to you eariler, the atheistic USSR didn't seem to be a bright beacon of truth, justice and salvation for mankind.

 

And thus, millions are absolved of any responsibility for their own opinions.

"Do as you would be done by", in other words? Well that's fine (although it doesn't actually demand the existence of a god, isn't unique to Christianity, and doesn't sum up the Christian religion in its entirety), but it doesn't explain, say, The Crusades. Were the Knights Templar only killing Muslims because they'd be totally fine with being killed right back? If so, isn't that basically suicide?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man finds a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.

Well yes, and pretty much every political/ideological system would work just fine if everyone agreed with it, from communism to fascism. But it's not like the Bible never contradicts itself.

I'm well aware of this. I do wonder how much of the Bible is just reflecting the politics of the day though. Is it a sin to "waste" sperm because God anticipated a planet with 6 billion people on it in two thousand years time and thought "Fuck yeah, let's get some of that going on"?

I have to say though, I strongly doubt that "egalitarian relations among same-sex persons [...] was unknown", unless you believe that homosexuality is somehow a modern invention.

 

So as long as you repent on your deathbed you're okay?

 

I never said that, don't put words in my mouth and obscure my point!

Cults of personality are essentially religions, organized ignorance.

There's no doubt in my mind that the world would be a better place without organized ignorance. Mankind needs to wake up and drop their convictions of ignorance toward fairytales and their convictions of ignorance toward greedy assholes.


-


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too - - - - Fuck yeah!!!
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

- John Lennon, Imagine

 

Well, no! If someone accepts the opinions of someone else and chooses to make them his own, that does not absolve him of any responsibility for those opinions.

I believe you said;” I wouldn't choose a religion to follow that couldn't sum up its ethos in a sentence” you didn’t ask for the sentence to prove God’s existence or that it be unique, just that it sum up it’s ethos in one sentence, which I believe it does!

As for the Crusades, anyone can say that they are a Christian but that doesn’t make it so, no more than someone calling himself a genius makes him a genius. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and seeing they were doing unchristian things it would seem that they weren’t Christians.

I’m not sure what you were getting at with this quote but thanks for quoting it away.

Well, no! There are some political/ideological systems that would not work even if everybody agreed with them, because of inherent flaws in those systems.

This old chestnut, I’ve never seen a “contradiction in the Bible” can’t be proven otherwise but people keep pulling it out of the fire.

 

No, you must realize that I wasn't talking about that, in any case, one does not become a Christian simply by ceasing to do what is bad.

 

I was not putting words in your mouth, I merely asked you a question to see if I understood you correctly.

And your point was pretty obscure to begin with that’s why I asked the question.

Nice side step, do you do the two step as well?

I fail to see how disorganized ignorance will be an improvement.

 

OWB, You fail to see anything because you are part of the disease. When you go to vote, they might as well have two options listed; "cure" & "disease" and you will pick disease because you are a religious tool. There will be no hope for humanity until your sick culture is dead and gone.

 

Relaxxx, You fail to see anything because you are part of the disease. When you go to vote, they might as well have two options listed; "cure" & "disease" and you will pick disease because you are a anti-religious tool. There will be no hope for humanity until your sick culture is dead and gone.

It makes about as much sense this way as it does yours!

 

I'm laser focused on the question and not the banter:

This is for any afterlife based religion:

1. We have books written by people who witnessed amazing happenings.

2. We are most likely living in mental ignorance of a science based spirit world that we haven't discovered yet because we haven't discovered subspace or warp fields yet (I like Star Trek).

3. There are ghost sightings which indicate a spirit world. Eh?

4. I'm starting to run out of ideas, could you tell? Anyway, why would people 2000 and more years ago make up such fanciful stuff? It must be true.

5. God is most likely living further than the former planet of Pluto in a globular cluster, so believe.

I heard all of this informtion two towns over in a truth telling contest. Let me know if I win so I can collect the cash reward.

 

I would, at this point, like to distance myself as much as possible from your point of view. It is one thing to criticise religion, to oppose it absolutely in all forms. But it is quite another to declare someone incapable of argument purely because they do not agree with you, which you are doing. Your referring to it as a disease is profoundly arrogant.

The fact is, you live in an irrational society, just like everyone else, a society that prizes its belief in things - mercy, justice, honour, fairness - that have absolutely no basis in science or rationality. Given that, quibbling over the existence or non-existence of a god seems rather petty; while you are complicit in these greatest of lies and irrationalities, you are certainly in no position to refuse to listen to someone just because they believe one more lie than you do.

 

You guys totally took over my thread. way to go, debate-hungry posters!

i'm going to stick to the hippie sub-forums from now on. lol

 

#1 - I tell it like I see it, religion is a socially transmitted mental illness.

#2 - I didn't determine he was incapable of argument, he proudly displayed his incapacity. But then he did seem to concede on ignorance, "disorganized Ignorance" so I'll give him that. My reply to that would be that a warship could not destroy if it was reduced to scrap metal.

#3 - What other choice do I have than to comply? Jail? Death? Recluse in the mountains?

#4 - If I have to suffer economic turmoil and hardship on account of religious zombie voters I'll damn well bitch and vent about it online, as petty as it may be.

 

Sorry, you feel that way. The only reason I continued the discussion was for your benefit, thinking that such a debate would give you another reason for believing one way or another, which is what you asked for, reasons to believe or not.

I'm reminded of a TV show I saw once about two “angels” that came to take a man's soul but one was a demon and the other an angel. The man was to decide between the two, who was to take his soul but he couldn’t tell them apart. So he decided that a staring contest would decide, the first to break eye contact would lose and the other would get his soul. The contest went on for some time, when a young girl about 4 or 5 who was playing in the room fell and hurt herself and began to cry. At which time, one of the two “angels” broke eye contact to comfort the young girl and even though the angel had lost the staring match, the man give his soul to him.

May you sing and dance with one hand free,
OWB

 

What a ridiculous analogy.

There's a quote from Vivian Stanshall (as Old Sir Henry), that "if I had all the money that I'd spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink". In a similar way, if you removed the organised religion from society, people would just make up a load of new ones, and there's no reason to think they'd be any better.

Disorganised ignorance isn't that appealing, believe me. That's pretty much what politics is. Ignorance won't stay organised; it'll just get organised by someone else.

Suicide is never the answer.

Just thought I'd remind you of that.

I really don't see the point of blaming religion for economic turmoil. I direct you to the UK. Do you think people here voted for a government that was essentially constructing financial time-bombs well within the public eye year on year for eleven years and counting because of religion? No-one in this country goes to church, no politician here is stupid enough to run on a religious platform, and we're still just as capable of fucking the place up as your lot are.