Gay Cure MERGED

Have you stopped beating your Wife?
Just a simple Yes or No?

 

No.

Don't even kid yourself that what I was asking you was a trick question.

 

This was the original post on this thread. When I read it, I felt that the question contained a lot of anti Gay ideas - The choice of words and the use of quotation marks. - If you strip all of this away and ask the question



If you knew before birth that a child was going to be Gay, would you choose to abort them?



My answer would be no - people have a right to whatever sexual orientation they come with it is not a disease. I think the problems that Gay folks have are caused by society.



Had the question been asked in this way in the beginning I suspect that the thread would have more focused. Therefore, I am not sure where Erasmus70 gets the idea that we are misunderstanding him.

 

No,coz i think it`s something normal and i dont see nothing bad in it!

 

Wow! Unconditional Love is a quality often recognizable by ones display of acceptance, respect, compassion, and modesty. It is not related to age, sex, ethnicity, education level or faith. Psychology texts show that personality is about half genes, and half environment. However, this thread shows that some cases stretch that assessment. There are wise kids, and seniors who are childish.

 

I agree! I've learn a lot from the kids who visit these forums.

 

Many of us are too soon old and too late wise (sigh)

 

Well Hallelujia .. a straight answer (no pun int) and from HippyPaul of all people!
Actually, the abortion idea was brought about later because my original question was not requiring that at all.
Its refering to the increasingly possible idea that you could 'abort the gay gene' or somehow remove or negate it.

I think including the 'Abortion' steals as much focus as possible and turns into an abortion debate in general after all.

Honestly, my question was straightforward and I think its something that can be thought about.
Most people are saying they would choose to have the homosexual baby 'as is' and not remove/replace the homosexuality.

 

You can see how abortion was raised. It's the alternative to genetic manipulation (which is a way off) if you somehow know your kid will be gay and want to do something about it.

You can't really preach, I'm pretty sure you if not broached then at least happily ran with the gay-as-nature/nurture debate in here, even though that really has nothing to do with the topic either.

 

Sure, Abortion could be an option (for some) until genetic therapies were invented but its also asking for whole new set of consequences and value conflicts etc.

Gene Therapy is the 'Ultimate' situation and one that nobody here wants to believe is possible.
Or is so unlikely as to be 'not worth thinking about'.

However, the same people have no problem asserting that they (or others) were born gay.
They just say it like its not only true and established but its even 'untouchable' and suggesting otherwise is killing Matthew Sheppard a little bit.

Ive said before that I think there can be something to a theory that a person may be born with a certain sort of vulnerability, compulsion or genetic tendency towards certain things.
Example:
Researchers for 'Big Tobacco' were really very interested in finding out why Asian Smokers (generally) smoked about half as much as Caucasian Smokers.
It turned out that Asians/Whites tend to have physiological differences in the way they hold nicotine and for how long.
Caucasians (generally) would need to 'Refill' their Nicotene levels faster and Asian genetics caused them to 'hold the nicotine' longer.

But hang on... Does this mean I was 'born a smoker' or that it goes to prove smoking is genetic or 'just who I am'.
No.
Actually, Nicotinols are natural but getting a huge hit from smoke in my lungs is not.
My lungs were not actually made for that purpose.
Oh sure.. I can do it!
It feels really good too and and I knew I liked it from my teens.
I can quit alright but i know I want to smoke.

It may very well be true that I was born with some sort of tendency to be more likely to be addicted but..
I still had to discover smoking
experiment, try at it first
I still had a 'sociological' need and influence.
I stilll had to make the decision and choice for it.
Ultimately its psychological.

Homosexual behavior is really not much different at all.
Someone might have a certain physiology that leans them towards finding more satisfaction in it.. maybe a higher sex drive or a tendency towards a high 'fear response' or SOME sort of issue that would make them more vulnerable.
But
Same applies - they still have to find it, choose it, try at it, get used to it and also have it fulfill the sociological and psychological needs etc.

 

For all your complaining that people read too much into your posts, and assume things you never expressed, you might do us the favor of not behaving that way to us.

 

I'll go you one better. In the past, I did want to "recover" from being gay. I went through pastoral counseling. I went to weekly meetings of other people who wanted to become ex-gays. To make a long and not-so-pretty story short, it didn't work. I'm as gay as I've ever been.

I don't remember a time when I wasn't attracted to those of my own sex. For that reason, I think of being gay as something I was born with. If it wasn't something I was born with, it was something that happened when I was very, very, very young.

 

My friend is about five years younger than me, and as long as I can remember exhibited behaviour that the rest of the boys present found odd. Years later, when he came out, it all seemed so obvious. I am sorry to hear of the stresses you endured trying to please others at your own expense. Good to hear you are now content to be yourself. Your friends won't mind, and your foes don't matter.
In reference to the quote above by E70, I see the most probable mechanism as being a combination of both. That is the most commonly accepted reason for most behaviours, according to psychologists. It could be that a genetic predisposition towards being gay exists from birth. If the person is raised in the right environment, then that predisposition sometimes leads to the reality of it. I would think that, since most behaviour is considered to be 50% genetic and 50% conditioning, being gay is the same.
If that gene is present in someone who is raised and taught to hate homosexuality, or that it is a sin that will damn them to hell, they may suppress it. Then, possible signs of it could be; an unnatural obsession with refuting homosexuality at every opportunity, a dogged determination to 'solve' the 'dilemma' of homosexuality for others, despite there protestations, and a conflicted opinion being evident in their views on it. this would be because their 'gay' side wants to be accepted and integrated, and until it is, the issue is a hot button. Some of the posters here may fit that description.

 

:thumbsup: BlackGuard. Good post.

 

With all respect Erasmus70, why do I keep hearing echo's of being gay is a disease. "maybe a higher sex drive or a tendency towards a high 'fear response' or SOME sort of issue that would make them more vulnerable." It is not TB or lung cancer. It is people with a different sexual orientation. No more no less. There is the implication in most of your statements that being Gay is something to be "fixed'. Perhaps I am the only one reading that into your posts if I am then I will set corrected. What do others think?

 

Whether homosexuality has a genetic origin or not is actually completely irrelevant to the debate; if you're talking about curing it from birth, the actual mechanics of curing it aren't the issue, it's about whether you'd do it or not. Same if you're talking about curing it in life, really. The cause is irrelevant. In fact, it doesn't really matter to the debate which if either of these is the case. When I've said about getting caught up in semantics, this is what I'm talking about: you've started by asking a hypothetical question, and ending up squabbling over irrelevancies.

What does this have to do with anything?

Plenty of people vehemently defend their smoking as a right to do as they please. If you're arguing that homosexuality is a behaviour just as smoking is, you're still not offering any opinion on whether it should or shouldn't be "cured".

 

I believe certain traits should be trained into people from an early age. Generally speaking, classical values like honesty and integrity should be ingrained into children from an early age.

But anything beyond that is over-reaching. We should not attempt to control the behaviour of individuals, because man's freedom to express himself is at the very heart of progress. Some of the greatest figures in our history have been gay.

Some people need to open a book on 20th century to learn about how dangerous it is to try and engineer a society towards perfection by stamping out certain groups of people.

 

Learning from past mistakes is gay.

 

One 200-point bonus for the best retort of the thread.

 

I never once experienced abuse or was recruited into my gayness. I lived in a typical family with three heterosexual siblings. I played sports, had a close relationship with both my parents and a typical father son relationship. My parents were equals, I did not have a weak father or an overbearring moher. I knew I was gay from about age 6. I didn't act upon my sexual orientation until I was 21. I met the man of my dreams in 1996 and we have been together for nearly a decade without infidelity. I LOVE him as much as my dad loves my mother. I feel in the deepest parts of me I am being honestly who I am. I have reconciled my faith with my sexual orientation and feel that my Lord made me this way and the trials and tribulations I face and the everyday bigotry that I face as a gay man were all tests from my Lord to live in my truth that I am a human being who happens to be gay.

Seven years ago I buried my best friend who drank bleach after being a part of OutPost ministries. I know this doesn't necessarily answer the question from the original poster. But I have seen what the various "cures" available for homosexuality today have done to those I love. With the bringing up of abortion and genetic manipulation all of these hypothetical "cures" seem to still point to one thing for me... death... whether it be in actual physical death or the crushing of my humanity. I could careless whether my sexual orienation is genetic or not.

Above all else, I am a human being who deserves to be treated as such. Those who hate us, murder us, discriminate against us, want to change us seem to forget that. The statistics of hate crimes, the treatment LGBT people receive from the government, the fact that in 2006 we are still fighting for basic protections denies that I am a human being with a birth right to happiness like my heterosexual counterparts.

It is hard not to be emotional about something so innate in me. I realize these hypotheses are here for discussion but you cannot remove the human factor from this.

I have volunteered for many LGBT organizations where society's disgust with us as a group has caused so much pain. I see it everyday when I find resources for the homeless LGBT youth (which make up a huge proportion of homeless people in the US) who have been disowned by their families. Society has caused this, not LGBT people. Our lives should not be davalued because you cannot not fit us within your realms of thinking.

I hear how daily we are an attack on the family... no on the well-being of society in general, yet I know this is nothing but misinformation from groups and organized religion and people who probably do not even know an LGBT person and who are bathed in nothing but hate.

We, as LGBT people, as a culture, have a rich history from scientists to philosophers, from humanitarians to artists and writers, musicians... yet our history and our contributions to society are degraded to disgust by so many.

I wonder if people ever think about those who are at the receiving end of this ex-gay "love". Or the discussions of how to make gay babies straight?

My love for my partner and his for me is the truest love I have ever had.... it is no different than the love a heterosexual person would have for their wife or husband. I am offended by the implication that LGBT people are incapable of REAL love or that we form some kind of pseudo-love for some political agenda.

Thanks for letting me share.