Fuck Islam

You disappoint me Shale.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JRzeZMw6LM

 

"There is a huge grey area here. Western policy has been creating a breeding ground for Islamist extremists for decades. I personally think anyone who says this is about religion is wrong. This is political in nature, not religious." - Maiai

Right on! Add to that the political situation in certain so called "Muslim countries". Reza Aslan does a pretty good job of explaining all of this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw

 

The thing is though that most of those middle eastern countries don't really do manufacturing industry. That's one reason they have such a huge divide between rich and poor. To make the $$$$ roll in, all they have to do is pump oil. The revenues go only into the hands of the ruling elites.

But those elites - and the Saudis are a prime example - do then use their $$$$ to buy arms from America, Britain and Europe. A lot of what they buy simply rusts away in the desert. But if we couldn't do these very lucrative arms deals, we would indeed be economically screwed. And of course, we're always thirsty for oil.

That being so, we don't like to say much about the numerous beheadings, amputations, stonings, floggings and other barbaric measures meted out by these regimes. When IS do the exact same thing, we send in the bombers.

Ahhhhgggggg.................................

 

Those of us who have the freedom to do so really should talk about Saudi Arabia more than we do. Their money has caused so much harm in the world, and most of the time they get a free pass from Western governments. We don't have to overlook their shit online. My job has nothing to do with anything related to oil, military, or government. How often does SA get mentioned for their role in 9-11? I hardly ever see that. Nearly all the 9-11 pilots were Saudi nationals. SA has its hand in almost every bad thing going on in that part of the world.

 

I agree 100%. I'm actually a member of Amnesty International, and I've been involved in many campaigns in the past on behalf of Saudi prisoners. The situation there is unbelievably bad for anyone who upsets the authorities in any way. Academics just thrown into jail for talking about reform, and left to rot without charges, trial, access to lawyers, family, medical care. People executed for minor drug offences. And let's not even mention women's rights.
It's very rare that any Amnesty campaign gets anywhere with the Saudis. Other governments sometimes yield under the pressure of being in the spotlight. But they are arrogant bastards who think they can do as they wish because of the oil they control.

And the truth is both our countries governments seem to adopt a deaf dumb and blind policy when it comes to human rights in Saudi. Back in the Blair period, there was a scandal where he personally told the special investigation people to lay off looking into claims that British Aerospace had created a slush fund to bribe officials and thus close a deal for a large number of fighter aircraft. I'm sure that goes on all the time, and both UK and US governments and corporations are implicated.

I'd better stop myself going off on a rave here - Perhaps we should have a thread on Saudi Arabia as you suggest, where we could discuss the issues, which are many and complex, and post news items about the latest pieces of nastiness to emerge from the hoy land of the oil well.

 

Getting back to the OP, my problem is with fundamentalism specifically, not so much religion in general. So, I say "fuck fundamentalism". It doesn't matter to me which religion it is.

I've been to fundamentalist Christian churches, and I've been to moderate / liberal churches. There's a huge difference in the vibe. The fundamentalists are fanning the flames of fanaticism and hate. At a typical moderate church service, all you do is sing some songs and listen to the pastor speak for 20 minutes about how to be a better person, or about the importance of helping the poor or working for social justice in the world. Nothing terrible comes from that. Yes, a social club or philosophical / political organization could accomplish the same purpose, but it doesn't really matter much what they call themselves. I see no evidence that moderate religious organizations have any major impact on the world, good or bad. They are just a part of the local culture. If all religions went away tomorrow, the primary benefits to the world would come from the elimination of fundamentalism.

 

The press often falls into the familiar and comfortable habit of only responding to what the government says and does, deciding whether to agree or disagree, and Western governments prefer not to talk about Saudi Arabia at all.

 

Yes, but it wont be all that long till Saudi.Arabia runs out of oil, 30 years or so, what do you think will happen then

 

New thread. http://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/465262-is-saudi-arabia-the-ultimate-evil-empire/

 

Who knows? Is that your doctrine btw? THE Hippie doctrine?

 

I'd settle for no extremist fundamentalism. That would be a huge step in the right direction.

 

Makes more sense to be intolerant against that then religion and their followers in general

edit: Hey, people can even have fundamentlist beliefs for all I care. As long as they do not force it upon others... A person can say they love freedom and be against people thinking (and believing) freely. That would make them hypocrites though

 

Sorry, but no apology here. It can't be helped - unless I fail to express my true feelings of the moment and at the moment, outrage at ppl being killed for expressing themselves is all I feel about religion.

 

This thread is moving so fast that you may have missed #46.

 

This thread makes me sad. Actually, this whole situation makes me sad, because something terrible has happened, and then people completely misinterpret it without bothering to educate themselves on the matter. Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgement. You are entitled to your opinion but that does not change reality around you. If you act like this in the face of reality you might as well go join them, for all the negativity and hatred you are putting into the world... and they will have won. If you react like this, you're letting them win.

 

How about:
Fuck any religion that celebrates/encourages the murder, oppression, harassment or enslavement of any human being because they don't live by that religion's beliefs.

All of the abrahamic religions (and some others) have, in their holy books, examples that include the some or all of the above.

 

I don't know. Probably the elite will be OK as they have big investments. But to tell you the truth, I wonder what might happen as the oil dries up.

If the Saud's were to fall from power they could possibly be replaced with an Islamic state type set up. It could get chaotic. Oil supplies could be threatened. It may not be possible by then to look to Russia to help out. Maybe the west would go in bigtime.

I think that it would be better if the Arabs used there oil money to build up decent societies with industry and everything else while they have the chance. They should be planning ahead, instead of squandering money on flying palaces and such excesses.