Fuck Islam

Not beyond punishment as correction is the point. To punish doesn't lend to correction, only to hard feelings and the subjegation of human beings no matter who conceives it. To heal is another matter is it not?

 

Then why chime in? It's not like I can't see you already.

 

I find all the anti-religious diatribe puzzling. I'm a Christian and have fellowship with other Christian groups who share my values--that are the very opposite of the ones so vigorously denounced here. There are others like me, generally called "mainline" Protestants, although that now is a misnomer because we've been losing ground to the Evangelicals. Generally speaking, we're a pretty tolerant bunch who stand for peace, love and understanding, which we believe are the central values Jesus stood for. Many of us take an historical-metaphorical approach to the Bible, and shake our heads at the violence in the Old Testament. There are other Christian groups, like the Quakers and Mennonites, who are renowned for their non-violence. And besides Christians, there are, of course, Buddhists, Taoists, Bahai, and others who seem to be largely peaceable people. The Muslims in my community also seem peaceful, and the Imam has denounced the terrorists in the strongest language. I've also spent time in Morocco and got to know lots of decent Muslims who think Islam is a religion of peace. I thought the participation of so many imams and ordinary Muslims in the Paris demonstration against the killings was impressive. I can't conceive of how anyone in my religious community is doing anything to promote violence or intolerance, and we're generally liberal and welcoming to others, including gays. So why should all of us be tarred by the acts of extremists? It's the very definition of bigotry. Hate, not religion, is the problem, so hate is what we need to do something about. I don't think the anti-religious rhetoric is helping.

 

If it occurs to us in sane proportion a social ill is a medical matter, a matter of well being.

 

I find that religion is not helping in any way. Perhaps the more liberal theists are not a direct threat to society, but their beliefs are still a threat to reality and those beliefs are still a gateway toward extremism. Religion, by its very existence, inadvertently supports and encourages extremism through its tenacious hold on irrationality as opposed to reason.

 

The Quran is purportedly the direct word of Allah given to his Prophet Muhammad. It is the rule of the Creator of the Universe and must be followed literally as any deviation is a most serious sin.

That is the difference between the Quran and Huckleberry Finn. That is why comparing the two in this way does not work; Hundreds of millions of people around the world base their lives and spirituality around the Quran, so when it mentions killing infidels x number of times, and a significant minority of muslims in fact do support, endorse, and proceed with killing infidels, you can see a direct causal chain.

 

I think we're all aware of that. My post was based on that assumption.

 

the interetation you cite is of a few and out of context generally. Your ignorance about the tract itself is showing it states that it is wisdom to devote yourself to goodness. Check out the sanskrit to engish traslation of the quran I posted in this thread.

 

nor do you find a theory of the world that puts your mind at ease.

 

I have been exposed many times to many mainstream muslims and they all tell me that the Quran is the direct word of god. to disobey the quran is to go against the direct word of god; unlike the bible it is not "inspired" in that sense; it is quoted verbatim from the angel Gabriel. I completely reject your claim that this is an interpretation "of a few". This is mainstream muslim theology. I'm not even talking about radicals here at all. I'm talking about going to Riyadh or Baghdad and walking the streets and asking people "from where comes the Quran?" They will invariably tell you it is the actual word of Allah, spoken through Gabriel, to Muhammad, and written down directly.

I have read as much of the Quran as I can stomach for a lifetime.

 

Because cheating on our taxes and letters to the editor is the best that we can do, c'mon.

 

is it your habit to rely on hearsay?

 

I really don't understand. Google the quran. Google islam. Ask any muslim. The quran is the direct word of god, according to islam. This is not a point of contention, any more than "jesus is the savior of mankind in christianity" is a point of contention in christianity.

 

Sure, sure, just direct me to the guardian of sanity.

 

none of these guys have "ever" read the Quran or Huck finn. so it makes no difference.

 

the undderstanding comes when you dont rely on smeone elses synopsis of the material which by virtue of your own decent accounting you may discover for yoursef. You would find that under yojr own sane counsel you would take from the words something other than you have heard. Many interpret the sayings of jesus amount to the admonition to serve him as lord but that is far from the instance of really comprehending what it written.

 

According to your instance of comprehending!

 

the y would look good in a macys fashion store front window. Fashions by isil.

 

no then it would be the instance of yours having said yourself you did not understand.

 

And those people would say that you are the one who has not comprehended. Who is correct?