Freedom is not safe

Discussion in 'Libertarian' started by Cello Song, May 20, 2021.

  1. Cello Song

    Cello Song Members

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  2. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    And why do you think that is? Cuz you libertarians are exercising your sacred Second Amendment rights by giving every sociopathic nutjob in the country the weapons to massacre them.
    Home schools are only as good as the teacher, which in your case I assume is you. My neighbor's housekeeper who probably didn't finish high school is trying to home school her kids while working full time to support them. Not working out.
     
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  3. Cello Song

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  4. Tishomingo

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    So the alternative to libertarianism and the robber barons is Chinese Communism. Whatabout a mixed economy and liberal democracy, like they have in, say, Scandanavia or western Europe?
     
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  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So what is the purpose of posting this video?
    Violence and bullying happen in public schools. Really.
    Do you assume violence and bullying don't happen in private schools or society in general? It does.
    Did you ever stop to think that public schools are microcosm of society at large and it isn't the school that causes the violence but the supporting society? Violence in private schools is less, but there are many reasons for that including the mandate that public schools teach all students including those prone to violence while private schools can expel them, and the fact that higher income students attend private schools and tend to have a more stable and empathic home life.

    Of course if you're home schooled you aren't around any other students so you can't bully or be bullied.

    Now this video seems to think that only public schools are grappling with the current rise in violence. It completely misses, or chooses to omit, the fact the the same problems and lack of solutions are happening across society, in the workplace, military, government, home, universities, police forces, and public venues. So don't tell me public schools are at fault. It's our entire society.
     
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  6. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    . Environmental recalcitrance, the relative authority being trained scientists, the recalcitrant being those who have the power to alter behavior; Inequity / disparity in resource / monetary distribution / ownership; continuing racial attitudes and / or denial of such; the recent discovery that a lack of critical thinking skills / education -(?) pervades a certain percentage of our population and is exacerbated on a daily basis by self interested media; our population driven farther and farther apart by factors mentioned; our system of laws which need enforcement equally; the fragility of our democracy when tested, as is happening presently. --------Those are some of my thoughts on your question--------
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Khan Academy does not claim to be a primary learning institution. It is primarily a supplemental set of YouTube videos.
    This approach is fine if a child has access to a computer and the internet, interest in the videos, the patience to watch them, is not lacking in person to person contact, the discipline to study a complete well rounded set of instruction on a variety of subjects, doesn't need live personal help, and the subjects being presented don't require hands on activities.
     
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  8. Cello Song

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    Don't forget the violent world of the office environment. It's hell out there!

     
  9. Tishomingo

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    Sal Khan's teaching qualities have mixed reviews. He seems to be particularly good in math and science, but some find his delivery a bit dry. The New Math Teacher Does he come into your home, or do you just play the videos for your kids? Please excuse me if I'm a bit skeptical that a former hedge fund/finance person with no teaching credentials can do an adequate job trying to teach everything from physics to art history. Of course, there is no consensus on what constitutes good education. Catholic schools are often praised for their excellent teaching and they seem to do a better job than public schools in the basics of readin', writin' & 'rithmetic. I can say from personal experience that they're also excellent disciplinarians. They also do a good job in indoctrination, and I don't think that's such a good thing.What will the kids do for higher education? Praeger University?

    My limited experience with home schooling comes from friends who are doing it. They fall into two categories: staunch Christians who don't want their kids exposed to secular demonic influences and yuppies who are prepping their kids to be the great leaders of tomorrow. The problem I see with both is lack of socialization with diverse populations and lack of exposure to diverse opinions. Some parents go out of their way to arrange social activities with other kids--mostly those of other home schoolers. But since one of their main goals is to shield their children from exposure to the "wrong kind" of other kids, this simply reinforces an insular outlook. You say your kids "learn to associate with people of all age groups". Do they also learn to associate with people of all races, religions and political ideologies? How do they learn that? From your description of their idyllic education, it sounds like you and/or other people have lots of time to devote to this enterprise, something my neighbor's housekeeper doesn't have. Also, in many states there is little or no regulation of home schooling, so my neighbor's housekeeper can just let the kids school themselves, which seems to be what she's doing--and they're out of control. Again, basic values shine through: me and mine first, my freedom, I'm all right Jack, too bad about you or the rest of society. I'm concerned that such an approach will further balkanize our society, and that at some point it will collapse. Hope you and your kids survive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
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  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    My sister and brother in law taught in a Catholic school. Another sister in law was a secretary in a Catholic school and several nieces and nephews attended Catholic schools.
    Keep in mind that Catholic and private schools generally are expensive*, very selective in so far as entry, are not subject to the same laws as far as disciple, curriculum, and personal, and are free to expel troublesome students. In addition many public schools lose federal funds when students leave to attend catholic schools yet they are still forced to subsidize them in the form of busing**, subsidized lunches, textbooks, scholarships, tuition vouchers, and access to public school extra curricular activities. All this and they are permitted to proselytize without regard for a separation of state and religion.
     
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  11. Tishomingo

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    It occurs to me that the rise of home schooling parallels another trend that I think has been detrimental to our society: narrowcasting. Back in the day, when the U.S. was a model of democratic stability, our news was dominated by three broadcasting networks, and all three were governed by the fairness doctrine which required them to present controversial views and to do so in a manner that was fair and balanced. Ronald Reagan abolished that in 1987, giving Americans the freedom to live in their own ideological bubbles--giving rise to NBC cable news and Fox, which under the solgan fair and balanced gives their consumers a steady stream of distortions--Fox particularly flagrant in this regard. In fact, they recently won a lawsuit for falsehoods spread by their commentor Tucker Carlson on grounds that no reasonable person would believe the things he says. The late Senator Moynihan once said “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” But since then, we've gotten the idea that we're each entitled to our own facts, as well. Freedom! And the right to our own facts, unchallenged, I think, is one of the major developments contributing to our current decline.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
  12. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Would pictures of Centralia massacre of IWW protesters look any better? Or Kent State, or the Las Vegas shooting, or any of the hundreds of shootings by good old boys just exercising their 2nd amendment “rights”. But for a bit of luck, January 6th would have been an ugly bloodbath.
     
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  13. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Or... It could be like you're a tree in a forest, unable to see past your neighboring trees in the immediate area. Of course, I could be wrong; unlike yourself so secure in your own tribal fallacies.
    Whatever you do, don't watch Newsmax or so much as look at anything your tribe labels right wing or libertarian evil because as you start to enlighten yourself then your worldview could start to collapse and your last recourse to stay in good favor with your tribe would be cognitive dissonance. And it ain't pretty. At least it's more dignified to remain in your bubble and not break character.
     
  14. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Hehe yup, either the frozen kind or the chemical kind. :)
    It's so bizarre because us actual hippies, who were hippies back when hippies were first a thing, stood for freedom. We just wanted to not be fucked with, to live and let live. A lot of these neo-hippies are just bleeding heart injustice whiners whose lives are too easy and government dependence partakers, essentially enslaved to "the man" who we wanted off our backs. They think because they like to get doped up, that makes them "hippies".
    Pathetic.
     
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  15. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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    That's a great measure, but I think you'll find that a libertarian approach to solving social problems caters more to those who don't experience them.

    Without taxes, you've a massive population below the poverty line with no way to assist them.
     
  16. Cello Song

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    I routinely assist those below the poverty line without any help from taxes, however a more permanent solution than assistance would be to correctly identify the root causes of their poverty and to eliminate those root causes.
     
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Seems to me there were several different kinds of "hippies" back in the day.
    Those who truly sought "freedom" did it by exploring the realms within. It wasn't about freedom to do anything we wanted, it was freedom from delusion.

    You seem to be describing a libertarian, not hippies searching for freedom as is illustrated by Divine Right in Gurney Norman's first novel.
    Being left alone was not the goal, understanding was.
     
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  18. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Ok. that's good! Charitable contribution goes a little ways.

    But how effective do you think it is? Simply leaving the matter to a choice made by an individual leaves to many behind.
     
  19. Cello Song

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    If you want peace, you have to start with your own heart.
     
  20. Cello Song

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    Just a bandaid. Root causes must be addressed. We need immigration reform and we need to end the drug war.
     

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