Free speech vs. Religious taboos.

Thanks for your replies. Good to see some debate.

Stoney69, You were quoting me saying...

...but I'm not sure if you got my crucial point. I think the domestic politics about immigrants has been very rough in Denmark. I definately don't agree with my government. But please notice that the demonstrators against the 12 sketches are not protesting against danish domestic politics - they are protesting against these 12 sketches alone, and they probably don't know anything about danish society. So please focus at their motives, and consider what's the bigger idea about that. I only see one idea behind their motives: backward religious madness.

I would also distinguish between this specifik case and other sorts of cases, folks. I'm a strong opponent against the war in Iraq, and danish participation of the war in Iraq. I'm also a strong opponent against Israels occupation of Palestine. These are crucial political issues, and I understand why arabs are angry because of those.
But to protest against 12 sketches is just too ridiculous, and there is absolutely no reason to apology for that. The prime minister has explained about the danish society in a interview durating 25 minutes, that has been broadcasted in al-Jazeera and other arab channels. He explained that the government can't control the debate of the free press, and that the government don't want to control the debate of the free press. The danish government (which I oppose on most other issues) has been very patient on this issue, but apparently some regimes, especially Saudi-Arabia, has an interest to increase the wrath of the masses, through their totalitarian media propaganda. Why? Read Orwells "1984", replace "Oceania" with "Saudi-Arabia", and you know why.

The danish flag is red with a white cross within it. So they're in fact burning a christian symbol. There has been no protests in Denmark over their burning danish flags. Should we also demand all muslims to apology for that? Should we start to howl in the streets and threat muslims with bombs & terror because some muslims are burning the danish flag? No, ofcourse not - that would be childish!
Think about that.

love and understanding,
wolf.

 

Here's a report from an islamic tv station about the whole thing.

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2693992

 

when i say our intelligence ..i mean us all, the human race and not our representative politicians!

i have no reason to believe otherwise ..we all do want peace but fail to recognise the attention that need to be paid to such details ..which can and do have long lastin effects. basically, as long as we use the basis of us versus them, we aint gettin anywhere ..its just US - US all ..there's no them

quite honestly, i haven't. and if i did, i think before anger ..my reaction would be that of sadness and despair, coz every such actions feeds more gaps between us humans

how are we to address our current gaps if we allow'em to get wider ?

 

Ok, Stoney69, you and I are different people and have different views. I can respect that. I'm in no doubt that if everyone in the world thought like you, we would have no problems like this and it would be a wonderful and peaceful place to live and I promise you I would love to live like that. And you're right I am just seeing the fanatics on the news and judging the whole religon on that. I do know a lot of Muslims personally and don't trust a lot of the ones I know but I shouldn't judge the whole religon on what I've seen and experienced. You say you haven't seen the news and the placards, banners, and protests, I urge you to watch, because it's escalating and I personally believe this will effect us.
You've made some good points, some that I've taken on board, but the fact remains that I'm angry and it won't change.
Like I say, you're a good person and that's obvious, but we have different opinions. You are someone with a high tolerance threshold, I have a limit.

With love and respect.

 

By the way, I just want to make clear, that I strongly believe in respect, and also believe the Danish man who created the Mohammad cartoons was out of order and shouldn't have disrespected the prophet. But you can't force an apology out of someone which is what the fanatics are trying to do. Iran has refused to trade with Denmark over this and maybe that is right (and legal), but what is wrong is the blatent disrespect by the fanatical protestors that are destroying all European embassies right now.

With love and respect

 

Europe has always been a breeding ground for anti-semitism.

 

Ive just been talking to someone and on lebanese tv muslims are attacking christian churches and it looks like the start of a pogrom

no they should not give a apology the islamic reaction as just shown that the cartoons were correct in fact we should make more cartoons, a complete life of mohammed would be a good project for someone .

I personally think that mohammed is the cause of islamic terrorism I have the right to cartoons that reflect my view , this is a view shared by a large number of ex-muslims including a ex professor of islamic history in the top islamic university on earth.

a number of books including best sellers have been written showing that mohammed was violent man and the cause of islamic terrorism, the koran and haddith shows this, and as I say so do the actions of his followers today.

also I have seen murals from iran with pictures of mohammed on them, and pictures are for sale in iran of mohammed, in fact one iranian women sells these pictures on the internet .

but no demos against them just about some very mild cartoons in denmark....also it is likely that these demos have been planned to take the heat off iran or just to intimidate minoritys

 

course we are different people and have different views as does every other person on our planet ..but that's what makes life interestin, doesn't it ? i can't imagine how it'd be if we were all to agree on everythin. what im suggestin though is that we acknowledge our differences and work with the similarities and there's more of them ....

should i watch the news ? perhaps ? but if the past few years have taught me anythin about these media outlets ..they've become the source and platform for changin opinions, breedin mistrust among peoples rather than factual reportins. the newsreaders, casters have become politicians and businessmen in their own right who're more influenced by their ratins and/or their masters/owners!

the placards, banners with the hate messages that you speak of, are not representation of the muslim nation but those are the only images the media would focus on as they have in the past. have they actually interviewed the majority of the muslim societies and taken their viewpoint on the issue ? if they did, we wouldn't be havin this debate and the countless other takin place in different forums

 

...and for those thoughts anaconda, i thank you. i am all for free speech, however common sense demands an element of self-censorship to maintain the trust and respect in societies so we all work together and with each other. i donot even subscribe to the idea of forcin out an apology

i believe lessons need to be drawn from this unfortunate experience, and i also believe there needs to be an immediate response from the world community (their elected leaders) to address the growin mistrust, establishin dialogues and tryin to match our value systems in this global arena - we are all connected, like it, want it ..or not

..and most importantly, a study undertaken in introducin certain limitations on free speech that'd allow the above to happen at all and peacefully

on a lighter note, i found this article amusin ..

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/28.htm danish cartoons the cartoonists have gone into hiding

http://www.faithfreedom.org/comics/introduction.htm why we should mock islam by a ex-muslim

with muslims you have the good cop bad cop game, one causes violence, and then you have another one saying islam is peace if you dont want violence submit to our way of doing things .

the way to deal with this is to do what you like and not be intimidated......make more cartoons, make cartoons of mohammed and his six year old wife , of him commiting mass murder or torturing people which is all in islamic scripture .

if you dont do that you will end up in a islamic theocracy .

we also need to find a way not to depend on middle east oil, and we should help people wherever they are that are oppressed or attacked by mohammedians

 

Anti-semitic

 

if you want to see anti-semitic (anti jewish )you need to watch arabic tv http://www.memri.org/video/

or see some arabic cartoons or see the links between muslim groups like the muslim brotherhood and neo nazis and world war two nazis ,the largest waffen ss division was made up of muslims nice pictures of them here http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/index.html

Im not anti anyone because of their race, half my family are chinese, to me the best women in europe today is ayaan hirsi ali a somali who is beautiful and brave, and if you read qoutation at the bottom of my post one of the ones Im against is cat stevens who is white .

 

Let me ask you something buddy, are you actually reading what has been said in this thread so far? Or are you just giving your uneducated opinions?

 

this is my opinion, that Europe has always been anti-semitic. Jews and Arabs are semitic and Europe has always been against Jews and Arabs. ANTI-SEMITIC.

 

yup your not reading whats been said

 

exactly. it's a cartoon for shits sake.

i'm not saying who (you can put one and one together):
they are making themselves look quite ridiculous by telling the world they will slay all who disrespect them meanwhile you can't say that perhaps one person in that field doesn't hold their own hatred against another religion outside their own.

they are blowing someone's idiocy way out of proportion. under what i understand, the person who did that was in their own country, on their own land which is one of free speech, so why go and bullshit about what other people are doing in their own space?

 

So you are giving your uneducated opinions. Do some reading and get a clue!

 

Europe was VERY anti-semitic, but this has nothing to do with the current situation.

Jihad has started, question is do we wish to fight back or surrender.

 

Pakistan Boycotts European Drugs
By AA, Multan
Published: Monday, February 06, 2006
zaman.com


The Pakistani Doctors Association announced a boycott of pharmaceutical drugs produced by European countries in response to the publication of insulting cartoons featuring Prophet Mohammed in the Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten.

Drugs specifically produced by Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, and France will be boycotted according to the announcement.


This is a unanimous decision said Secretary-General Shahid Rao of the Penjub regional Doctors Association. All doctors in Pakistan reacted against the caricatures and until the countries listed apologize, Pakistan will use alternative medicines.


http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20060206&hn=29458

 

Yes, I am part of the Mob.