Forms of Bhakti

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by Jedi, Feb 12, 2006.

  1. MollyThe Hippy

    MollyThe Hippy get high school

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    Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita that He is sex and so I'll be a bhakta of His Incarnation as Sex
     
  2. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    You know, your posts are some what disturbing, you can't twist everything to your liking, thats not how this works. You have to twist yourself to God's liking, not the other way around.
     
  3. mahabala1

    mahabala1 Member

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    BG 7.11: I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bhāratas [Arjuna].
     
  4. mahabala1

    mahabala1 Member

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    PURPORT

    The strong man's strength should be applied to protect the weak, not for personal aggression. Similarly, sex life, according to religious principles (dharma), should be for the propagation of children, not otherwise. The responsibility of parents is then to make their offspring Kṛṣṇa conscious.
     
  5. mahabala1

    mahabala1 Member

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    BG 9.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.

    BG 9.2: This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.

    BG 9.3: Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of birth and death in this material world.
     
  6. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

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    Another striking example of how subtly Prabhupada misinterprets the scriptures. The original verse Gita 7:11, reads
    balam balavataam cha aham
    kaama raaga vivarjitam
    dharmaaviruddho bhuteshu
    kaamosmi bharatarshabha

    I am the strength in the strong who have vanquished desire and attachment.
    I am the desire of the righteous, O best of the Bharatas.

    kaama does not mean sex-life. In a very narrow sense, it may mean sexual desire, but definitely not in the context of what Krishna is talking about. The word means desire, be it for sex, for food, for spiritual growth and liberation or anything else.

    First of all he says kaama raaga vivarjitam - those who have vanquished desire and attachment.
    One who has destroyed all desire and attachment is no longer a slave to the body-mind-intellect, and sees the world with sameness.

    Krishna says I am the strength of such a strong people. For the truly strong are those who have power over themselves.

    Then he says dharma aviruddha bhuteshu - of the creatures who are not contrary to dharma, or who follow dharma - I am the desire. First of all the ones who truly follow dharma, are those who are described earlier as kaama raaga vivarjitam. For such people there is no question of kaama at all for they have vanquished all desires.

    But if there are some who still have desires, it cannot be sexual desire, for dharma teaches us that sex is only for procreation according to dharma. And in todays context, there is no need for sex at all, since procreation is quite detrimental to the human condition at present.

    The kaama of such people is only for the welfare of all. It is not some ego centric desire, but it is of the form:
    kaale varshatu parjanyaha (may the rains come on time)
    prithvi sasya shaalini (may the earth bloom forth with plenty)
    deshoyam kshoba rahitaha (may the land be free of all sorrows)
    brahmana santu nirbhayah (may the wise be fearless).

    Sarveshaam swasthir bhavatu (may all be healthy)
    sarveshaam shantir bhavatu (may all be peaceful)
    sarvesham mangalam bhavatu (may all be good).

    These are the desires of the dharmaaviruddha - for the benefit and well-being of all creatures. Krishna says that among desires, I am that desire which is selfless and is for the universal well-being.
     
  7. MollyThe Hippy

    MollyThe Hippy get high school

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    righteous desire... that sure sounds like sex to me
     
  8. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Thats really pathetic, Is that all you can think of when you think of righteous desire?
     
  9. SvgGrdnBeauty

    SvgGrdnBeauty only connect

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    I think she's just kidding, Jedi.
     
  10. MollyThe Hippy

    MollyThe Hippy get high school

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    They didn't have Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia Ice Cream when B.G. was spoken.
     
  11. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

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    Good job following my reasoning.
     
  12. mahabala1

    mahabala1 Member

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    Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation

    TEXT 66

    sarva-dharman parityajya
    mam ekam saranam vraja
    aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
    moksayisyami ma sucah

    SYNONYMS

    sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.
    TRANSLATION

    Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
    PURPORT

    The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge, processes of religion, knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now, in summarizing Bhagavad-gita, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Krsna. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him.
    In the Eighth Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Krsna. Thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take to the surrendering process. To such doubts it is here said that even if one is not free from all sinful reactions, simply by the process of surrendering to Sri Krsna he is automatically freed. There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Krsna as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him.
    According to the devotional process, one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord. One may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order, but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Krsna consciousness, all his activities are in vain. Anything that does not lead to the perfectional stage of Krsna consciousness should be avoided. One should be confident that in all circumstances Krsna will protect him from all difficulties. There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Krsna will see to that. One should always think himself helpless and should consider Krsna the only basis for his progress in life. As soon as one seriously engages himself in devotional service to the Lord in full Krsna consciousness, at once he becomes freed from all contamination of material nature. There are different processes of religion and purificatory processes by cultivation of knowledge, meditation in the mystic yoga system, etc., but one who surrenders unto Krsna does not have to execute so many methods. That simple surrender unto Krsna will save him from unnecessarily wasting time. One can thus make all progress at once and be freed from all sinful reaction.
    One should be attracted by the beautiful vision of Krsna. His name is Krsna because He is all-attractive. One who becomes attracted by the beautiful, all-powerful, omnipotent vision of Krsna is fortunate. There are different kinds of transcendentalists--some of them are attached to the impersonal Brahman vision, some of them are attracted by the Supersoul feature, etc., but one who is attracted to the personal feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and, above all, one who is attracted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Krsna Himself, is the most perfect transcendentalist. In other words, devotional service to Krsna, in full consciousness, is the most confidential part of knowledge, and this is the essence of the whole Bhagavad-gita. Karma-yogis, empiric philosophers, mystics, and devotees are all called transcendentalists, but one who is a pure devotee is the best of all. The particular words used here, ma sucah, "Don't fear, don't hesitate, don't worry," are very significant. One may be perplexed as to how one can give up all kinds of religious forms and simply surrender unto Krsna, but such worry is useless.
     
  13. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

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    You do see the hypocrisy of calling God "Krishna", which is a certain religion's name for God.

    "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me."

    Otherwise, a peaceful message.
     
  14. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

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    Which is the problem with translating dharma as religion. It is not only religion, but a code of conduct, a way of life. Abandon all activities and surrender to your divine nature. That is the message of Krishna.
     
  15. spook13

    spook13 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I've seen dharma separately translated as "truth", "religion", and "duty". All seem applicable in the big picture; this is a situation of a word having multiple layers of meaning.

    What's the connection between hypocrisy and calling God Krishna....???
     
  16. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Dharma is also sometimes traslated as 'law'.
    It's worth remembering though, that to abandon all dharmas, one must first know those dharmas. This verse comes right at the end of the Gita, and Krishna has explained in detail about dharma by this point. So really. this immediate surrender to God is the point where all dharmas are surpassed. And part of going beyond it is to go beyond seeing it in terms of this or that particular religion, but just knowing God directly.
     
  17. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

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    Wonderful point bill.
     
  18. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Do you see the hypocrisy in leaving God's name nameless?

    Ha, if we keep thinking of trying to be way to "enlightened" we will realize we are just fools and go back to square one. So first lets accept that we are fools and go back to square one, so lets not do that, lets use discrimination in our own hearts and try to change something in our life first and go forward, not backward, and ditto to Jedi.
     
  19. MollyThe Hippy

    MollyThe Hippy get high school

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    i haven't seen any squares yet to step on in all my days of walking the path
     
  20. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Now that is a paradox in of itself.
    Tell me, do you lie?
     
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