FBI to investigate Wall Street's high frequency trading

Coffee

To explain - 19th century political liberals once supported economic liberalism (free market liberalism, classical liberalism, lassie faire economics) because they believed it undermined the political authority of the few (because it opened up the market to more people).

Then many political liberals realised that economic liberalism had led to an economic authority that curtailed ‘liberty’ as much as political authority did and began to turn against economic liberalism just at the point when wealth began to realise that economic liberalism granted them more power in the shape of economic authority.

So political liberals became seen as ‘left wing’ opponents by the ‘right’ because they wished to undermine the power and wealth of the few. But political liberals were often in opposition with left wing political groups/party’s and many on the left see ‘liberals’ as being on the ‘right’.

In the UK at the moment we have a right wing government made up of Liberals and Conservatives.

In an American context ‘liberals’ are mostly seen as ‘left wing’ only because much of left wing thought has been systematically purged from US society over the last 50+ years. So without a real left wing the centre right liberals are seen as the left wingers.

This is why many outside the US believe that Americans have two right wing parties with a centre right Democratic Party and are more right wing Republican Party.

It is also why many Americans see left of centre parties in other countries and think they’re hard left socialists

 

You posted this shortly after watching Wolf of Wall St., didn't you? C'mon.... Admit it!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

If you're going to use the Internet, it might pay to get informed.

 

This proves nothing to me. I didn't say the government doesn't funnel money to private industries, I said the government doesn't personally create these things, they create tools for war.

With regards to the Ipad, Smartphones etc. You're not going to convince me that NO private investor would invest in it, for the benefits they would receive.

I don't believe government is the only way to get the system working, and, I don't believe it's the best way, either. I don't believe the money they "invest" in the first place, is rightfully obtained. Moreover, this would go back to the homeless guy story. Because, okay, now apple got fed- so, Liberals are happy. They don't care about the Middle/working class, who had to do severe physical labor, to pay apple and give guns to Jihadist- as long as the Media and government can portray it as a Humanitarian effort...

Mr Fiction Writer, my "sweeping generalizations," are in fact a true life reflection of the american Political landscape. It's only you Liberals/Leftists who refuse to believe it. Regular citizens agree with me...

Obviously, I don't care to be accepted for something I'm not..

I will always think Leftist and Liberals are part the Status Quo, and I believe that, because of history. Liberals sympathize with the Federal Government,The UN, Ted Turner and, other such elitists. Then, they turn around, and act like they're against the Corporate State we live in..

Meanwhile, the ONLY thing I see Liberals/Leftists fight against, is the Second amendment..

and, I'm not looking at history??? Hah. That's pretty funny, for someone who supported Obama, when you came to this forum.

Obama is the Status Quo, and Democrats are no different from Mainstream Repubs.

 

A leftist calling themselves a liberal is like a fat chick calling herself curvy. Nowadays anyway.

I get that the definitions and interpretations have changed and continue to change over the course of time.

 

If you're not even going to bother reading a very short description of the terms, then it's probably best if you just stop talking.

Seriously, it would be like saying all conservatives are fascists because they're both right wing ideologies.

 

All I'm saying is one is a milder form of the other

Not all curvy chicks are fat.

 

25
Re government involvement in the development of innovation, research and infrastructure you seem to be basically going with your fantasy world over reality.

While governments have done these things leading to huge developments - you think they might have been done by private investors (although they were not) and you also think the private sector would have done it better (although they didn’t)

Can’t you see how silly that sounds?

So you are comparing the Apple corporation one of the wealthiest companies on the planet to – a homeless guy?

What the hell are you on about?

What history are you referring to? Can tell us what information you are basing your views on (books, papers, websites?)

I’m very much in favour of curtailing the power and influence of wealth in the political system – through, amongst other things, election reform, the proper regulation of financial markets, limiting the power of lobbying groups, along with taxation and redistribution of wealth.

Now as far as I can tell your ideas to curtailing the power and influence of wealth are to cut taxes (increasing wealth’s riches), having little or no regulation on markets (or anything else) and the weakening of democratic government power to oppose the wishes of wealth.

How is giving wealth basically everything it wants fighting the ‘elite’?

 

Coffee

Curvy chicks – Far chicks – presumably thin chicks and any chick in general -are we here talking of young chickens here or are you perhaps talking about women

So let’s see - those with left wing views are ‘fat chicks’ – those with liberal views are ‘curvy chicks’ – so presumably ‘average’ size chicks are those on the right and then chicks further to the right must be thin?

Now I don’t know you predilections but in advertising terms if you wish to sell something the preference is for thin women (all those size 0 super models and slim actresses).

So it is interesting you have picked up (consciously or not) on this propaganda technique.

*

I think your problem is that you are looking at appearance rather than substance you are seeing ‘fat chick’ or ‘thin chick’ you don’t ask what are these different people like, what do they think, what kind of character are they, what are their motivation.
And to me that is far more important than what they look like.

*

Probably the main difference between ‘liberals’ and ‘lefties’ is their attitude toward ‘capitalism’ liberals embrace it while lefties are wary of it (with those further to the left being hostile).

Those further to the right than the liberals are cheer leaders of a capitalist approach with those further to the right being hostile to anything that might curtail it (such as ‘government’ inference or regulation of the market).

Where liberals and lefties are closest is in their belief in social justice, trying to help people realise their potential through active assistance while those on the right take a more Social Darwinist approach in that those with potential will rise anyway without assistance.

 

It's not silly at all, and you're bending the truth a bit. You're insinuating there are NO private investors in these things, when we both know they are very common.

Secondly, private investors would invest, for the sake of making money. i think you saying government is better to loan people money, is what truly sounds crazy.

Do you know what a metaphor is??


I'm saying that government funds are wrongfully embezzled from us, in the first place- so, regardless of where the money is going, it doesn't belong to the government in the first place.

I'm talking about the history of mankind. Communism is a system of greed, and it favors the wealthy, and, everywhere else Liberal views are pulled from, have been tyrannical overbearing governments, who control everything.


If you're sitting here telling me that government is soo much greater than corporations, then, it's not far-fetched to say, that Liberals would be okay with them taking over everything, because Liberals see government as some great protector, and, think we as Human Beings, are too stupid to care for ourselves.

Holy shit. Why are you wasting time talking to me, when Goldman Sachs could make you a congressman?

Even though it sounds sarcastic- it's not.

I'm not going to lie, Liberalism "sounds good."


and (for a lack of a better analogy) What is the greatest trick of the Devil??
Convincing people he didn't exist.

The Elites
are the same way; There is nothing you can do, through a Mainstream Democrat or Republican, that doesn't support the Status Quo, and, the reason is that both of these political parties are corrupted to the core, and the elections are actually m[FONT=Verdana]anipul[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ated by them in m[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]any w[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ays[/FONT][/FONT].


So, [/FONT][/FONT]as much as Liberals say they want to help people, the system obviously hurts more people than it helps. But, the reason why we will talk in circles forever, is because you Leftist write off any and all government MURDER, as being for the greater good, or, appropriate for the dangerous jobs cops do (you know, arresting people for non-violent victimless choices, to 'protect' them from themselves)[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

Yes, clearly.
Btw, what's the difference between Rich and Poor, with regards to insurance. The poor use Government insurance, which, idk if any of you guys have been on Government Insurance, but the Service is terrible through Medicade, you can't even speak with a real person 95% of the time..

I believe it's because we are putting faith in Government, for something that should be handled in the Private Market. You don't believe I see the good intentions of Liberalism, and, that's simply not the case.

I just don't think the Government has the authority to force us to buy into something, we may morally disagree with; But, before you call me a Religious Nut, I am saying there are people who would rather self-medicate with natural herbs, who are now forced to buy into Western Medication, and not just for a year, and, it's not up to them at all, but they will have to pay either way.

This is force IMO, because it's not the governments to give away, it is ours.

Oh, I've heard of them; They're just one of the reasons I don't support the stupid Drug Laws, which they bribe politicians to keep in place.

They're the only ones allowed to push Opium and, pills to chill you out. But Federal agents will kick in your door for growing a plant...

I think school, TV, Chemicals and foods we eat, are used jointly to indoctrinate people that everything is okay. But, on the dark side, I believe we are controlled by an evil Government with evil Corporations, who are pushing an agenda

I understand your point,

His military spending is way higher than Clinton.

I'm willing to agree it was partly due to the two wars, but, although you're quick to say Obama didn't 'start' those wars, you failed to mention that he stayed in Iraq longer than Bush had originally planned,
and there's no end, in the near future to afghanistan, either.

I'm not missing the point, I just disagree with your whole premise.

I strongly believe the reason why corporations want a slice of the government pie to begin with, is because they have these programs like the Fda,Cia etc. that people trust, but, these same programs are used to give corporations greater power.

Okay, you listed 4 things, then said "both."

Not all arms dealers profit from the purchase of 1 gun, first of all.

Secondly, yes, I am pro-drug, because it virtually makes no sense for arresting an individual, who isn't harming anyone except themselves. Moreover, the Drug War has been a costly nightmare, which criminalizes people, and throws them into prisons with violent people, for what should be treated more of a mental problem. There are underlying reasons for addiction.

Moreover, all these industries you mentioned, are tightly knit with Obama, Romney and, other such "mainstream" politicians. It's evident we've created a system of bribery, and the bribery come from the Governments power. THIS is the way the Elite takes control.

Now, if you listened to me, you'd know I believe Banks are frauds, and 99.9% should be closed down for fraud. There are laws against bribery and fraud, as well as many other standard laws, which protect us, without needing to create extensive and costly government programs, to do the same things corporations can do themselves.


and, don't tell me they can't, because they already do.

This is obviously false- Corporations need Governement to go to war in the first place, so, my views don't support war, just because I don't want to punish all rich people, without specifying which were responsible. I know some of the industries in the military-industrial complex, and all of them (Halliburton, Monsanto, Goldman Sachs etc,) all use the government for their own personal gain, so this argument makes no sense..

You're pulling this out of no where.

things are more expensive through government, that's why they can't compete in the free market. Just look at the post office. Every government service, is an endless funnel, with very little results. They've been promising to expand the Subway since 2008, their original est finish date was 2012, their new date is 2024, and they're already over their budget. This is how government is with everything...

Ill get back to the rest of your misconceptions later...

 

25

Yes – your statement wasn’t a metaphor since a the homeless man in your story had absolutely no resemblance to the Apple corporation which is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet.

Were you thinking of allegory?

embezzle – to appropriate money or property to one's own use.

Is public education embezzlement is assistance give to others in times of hardship embezzlement?

As far as I know you still want to have government, for the protection of property rights, and presumably that would need funding to function – would that be embezzlement?

Based on what - please can you cite some of the books, papers, websites etc from which you have learnt this history.

But you seem to want government there to protect property rights, so you want it as the ‘great protector’ but you just want it to protect those with property.

It not about stupidity but practicality in the modern world – can an individual personally care for all the things that go on in the modern world – on - most don’t have the time, knowledge or inclination, they pay to have those things seen to while they get on with their lives.

Well laugh all you want but it seems rather hollow – because I’m sure I’m not the only one that noticed you are not putting up any that proves my statement wrong so again I ask –

Now as far as I can tell your ideas to curtailing the power and influence of wealth are to cut taxes (increasing wealth’s riches), having little or no regulation on markets (or anything else) and the weakening of democratic government power to oppose the wishes of wealth.

How is giving wealth basically everything it wants fighting the ‘elite’?

 

25

This is the same old shit another rant that addressed none of the criticisms leveled at your ideas

Liberal’s bad blah blah blah, leftiers evil blah blah blah, all governments are loathsome blah blah blah…

Yes OK we’ve got it, we’ve all heard it a hundred times already…now can you please start addressing the criticisms of you views?

So far your only counter argument to criticisms is to tell us we are wrong because you think you are right…which is a rubbish argument besides being illogical, irrational and rather specious given your woeful inability to put forward a coherent and informed argument.

I’ve never written off government murder as being for the greater good can you produce the evidence of who has?

Really man I know you are trying to hide the fact that you are unwilling to answer your critics but lying about people doesn’t work.

 

STP - It would be easier if you would just admit that you are arguing on purely ideological grounds, and not basing it on any sort of historical evidence. Which is fine, and you are entitled to those opinions, but to be purposefully ignorant of the success of social welfare programs in many different countries does nothing but make you look foolish.

For example, you can still argue that you think the Swedish system is wrong on ideological grounds (freedom, liberty, private property, etc.) without ignoring the evidence that Swedish people are healthier and live longer lives on average, or have a degree of economic security that is not present in the US.

Obviously there is a trade off between an individual's control of their lives and economic and social security provided through a welfare state. Personally, I am completely willing to make that trade off because I have seen evidence (in my own country and in others) that these sort of programs work, and work more efficiently than private systems in other countries (in terms of health care, specifically). I understand that you believe that the trade-off is not worthwhile - that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it - but it becomes frustrating when you discount clear evidence just because it is presented by someone that you disagree with ideologically.

 

No, a metaphor, (off the top of my head) is "two essentially dissimilar things, suggesting a comparison that one is the other."

they don't have to be exactly alike, but, they are alike in that they are receiving government benefits. The Homeless guy isn't even helped through social programs, so it wasn't literal examples. i'm only saying that it seems to me, that Liberals see all government spending and most government force as justified, without even considering that just maybe, that's all part of the corporate agenda aswell...

See, you're really asking 2 questions here. You're
also skewing my views, (as Liberals do often,) by insinuating that not supporting the government, is the same thing as not wanting to help people.


I've said, I believe people have a moral obligation to help one another. However, whenever force, violence and, coersion are used, the true cost is our Freedom, and I personally don't believe government running every aspect of our lives is worth Our freedom.


So, yes, it is embezzlement. The Majority of people are forced to enlist their kids in public schools, which drives prices up, for those who don't. Because any kind of government monopoly makes the prices go way up.


Think about it logically:


College Tuition

HealthCare

private schools for kids.

Why are the prices so high? Liberals are quick to claim it is the 'greed' of these industries, when it's obvious the 1 thing these all have in common, is government interference. Government plays god in these markets, and as a result, prices go up, and the very few people in those industries get rich. The elite like this, because it raises Prices- [FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and, they m[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ake money.

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
In the freemarket, you have honest competition, so no one has trillions of dollars to dish out, or "protection" from the l[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]aw[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]. This means prices would go down. This is basic economics.


You liberals say the government is "better and faster" than corporations, but that is ideological. In fact, it's the total contrary.


and, if you don't believe me, compare your last trip to the DMV, to your last trip to a grocery store...

"want" is a strong word.


I really want people to live together peacefully, without government totally, I'm just smart enough to realize that it'll take at least a century to end dependency on government..

But, I also realize that the devaluation of a Nations currency, has caused numerous economic collapses,
and thus, this infinite wealth is fiat..

Communism was derived from Marxism, which is very radical. They literally believe if some rich guy doesn't want to give 90% of their money away, it's morally justifiable to kill them for their money. Right there, it is obvious it is a system of greed and force. But in practice, Communism always only has 2 classes; The Elite (those in/connected to government) or the very poor (everyone else.)

Much like our government today,they use Humanitarian excuses as means of embezzling our money. They will say "oh we need to fix our crumbling roads" then, spend millions of dollars on endless government projects, that hardly have work in progess at all. The government is actually much more costly than corporations. Leftists just totally fail to consider their waste and corruption...

You Leftist seem to trust your perception as fact. My ideal world would be one in which, we don't need guns pointed at one another, in the n[FONT=Verdana]ame of "pe[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ace."[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

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they [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]allege to 'protect us' from...[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Besides, my views have nothing to do with specifically protecting people with more property. Everyone is a property owner- your body is property. This me[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ans corpor[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ations c[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]annot hurt/kill you, or d[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]am[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]age [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]anything you own. They c[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]an't dump w[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]aste, they couldn't monopolize either. I've [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]also said fraud, bribery and theft is still illegal. Corporations couldn't do virtually anything. They don't w[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ant to elim[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]inate regul[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ation, bec[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ause regul[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ations help them destroy competition, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and burden sm[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]all business owners with government fees and fines, they can't afford. Many times for very trivial pointless reasons, such as what trees you have in your yard.

With regards to Foreign policy, the Constitution makes it perfectly clear, that we should only go to war, if we are attacked or threatened.

Your question is buried in a lie, so there's no way to answer that fairly.


I would argue that it is in fact the system of government, which the wealthy abuse for their personal gain, is what they want. The wealthy weren't behind Ron Paul, they were behind Obama and Romney.

that's because disarmament, an endless war on terror and, cracking down on political dissonance- is the agenda of the wealthy. So, I'm not the one giving wealth what it wants. In fact, my views better punish frauds, theives and, people causing real force and harm, while what you are fraggle are arguing, is having a central authority, which has the ability to tell us what is or, is not okay to ingest. to the point where they kill people, their pets etc. from "[FONT=Verdana]accident[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ally" r[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]aiding the wrong house, for wh[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]at w[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]as [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]a victimless crime to begin with.



It's the people who [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]are the true victims in [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]all of [/FONT]this. The US Government tod[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ay [/FONT]is merely [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]a show, to m[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]aint[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ain the elites power [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and we[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]alth, by distributing most of the t[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]axp[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ayers money, b[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ack to the elitiests through w[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ar [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and w[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]asteful spending.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT].[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xBpbMkjZrnE





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaUOaTwlEA"]Dan Bongino: The Behind The Scenes Story Of Leaving The Secret Service - YouTube


this will offer some insight.

 

Actually, I would make the same fat chick vs curvy chick comparison with regular conservatives and imperialist neoconservatives. One being a milder form of the other. You're making assumptions. It's too bad there's not enough die-hard neocons on this board to troll . It would make this place far more interesting.

Fat chicks call themselves curvy so they sound more appealing, or they're simply in denial of their real BMI. Because of this, this makes sexy curvy women sound worse because everyone's perception of curvy begins to mean obese.

 

25

But produced none – one video was just another rant (like your own) full of slanted assertion, unsubstantiated claims and obvious fallacies. The other was a vacuous advert for a book, devoid of any political insight.

And neither addressed any of the criticisms levelled at your views.

I mean come on man - do you just accept anything someone like Adam Kokesh says without question?

Dismissing a lack of social mobility he claims “Some people go up some go down” but that isn’t supported by the data from the US that finds that while the real term incomes of middle and lower classes have on the whole fallen or stagnated in the last 30 odd years those of wealth have ballooned vastly. The real picture seems to be that the majority are going down while a few continue to go up.

This Adam then seems to claim that wealth’s philanthropy would fill any gap in need – yet wealth gives less than the poor – with the wealthiest Americans donating just 1.3 percent of their income while the poorest donate 3.2 percent. And it’s worse because unlike the more wealthy donors, most of the poorer givers cannot take advantage of the charitable tax deduction, because they do not itemize deductions on their income-tax returns (and it has been argued that without those tax deductions for giving many wealthy might give less).

Look man we have enough here with your own vacuous rants you don’t need to link to others – why not instead address the outstanding criticisms.

 

Time and again it comes back to the same thing – are the solution that 25 and other like him are suggesting likely to make things worse rather than better

They claim they would – but that seems to be it – a claim that doesn’t seem to be backed with anything but belief.

They scatter gun their posts with what they see as being wrong as if that somehow proves they must be right – BUT many of the things they complain about are also the complaints of their opponents – we often agree on the problems what we disagree on is the solutions

It’s just that we don’t think their solutions stand up to scrutiny.

One of the big problems I and others see with the present political system is that it has become too dominated by wealth.

That dominance grew in my opinion due to the introduction of many supposedly ‘free market’ ‘business friendly’ ‘trickle down’ based policies. An ideological outlook promoted from the 70’s by numerous wealth sponsored think tanks and lobbyists. This movement brought about tax cuts that mainly favoured wealth, a lack of regulation that favoured wealth, and a economic globalisation manipulated to favour wealth.

My solution would be a return to the policies that undermined that dominance, the proper regulation of markets, taxation of wealth, a system set up to try and give as many as possible a healthy and fulfilled life along with an understanding that this is a global issue that needs to be tackled globally.

The likes of 25 seem to think the solution is to have free market ideology on steroids, little or no tax, little or no regulation, little or no public assistance, and little government except where it involves the protection of the property and wealth of those that have them.

A system in other words seemingly designed to allow wealth to further dominate US society.

 

actually, that's not true. The Second video is of an ex secret service agent of Obama's and Bush's. Yet, today he's urging people not to trust the federal government.

Obviously not, or I would believe CNN, Fox and, MSNBC without question. I am not a government sympathizer or Statist, and I don't see the world at face value.

I've defended my views, in my own words, and you just ignored me.


and, I'm sorry, but ignoring all opposing views, is the definition of ignorance.

But, this is not due to letting people keep the money they earned; It is caused by Banksters and, the Military-industrial Complex, who controls our government.

Everything that government does, is in favor of the powers that be. We truly attacked Gadaffi, because he was going to create a new currency based on gold, that would contest the dollar

In the past 30 years, which you consistently call "my views," have virtually NOTHING to do with my views and beliefs, so to say I continue something, that I find morally reprehensible, is offensive.


since the 1960's, government programs have expanded massively. These programs, even many supported by Liberals (Cia, Epa, Fbi and, many others,) are used by these corporations, to benefit the elite few. Many of them are: contractors, arms dealers, oil industrialist,Banks drug cartels, "Big Pharm" etc..

Taxing them more, does virtually nothing. Taking away their power is the only way to stop this. Once, Our faith was placed in government, however, our government today, has become sponsored by elitist and lobbyist, and even if that were illegal, they would still do it- because lobbying was going on before that. (Bush)


at least today, we can see that Obama is sponsored by these elite bankers.
It's important to think that an agenda is being pushed by him.


But, yeah, Liberals refuse to believe that too

liberals have this ideology, where they believe, because our natural resources are being raped by corporate scumbags; if we make them pay their 'fair share' to Washington Bureaucrats everything will be better.

I've stated I don't want to end government help for the people Right away, but, what we need to do Right away is end this military spending, foreign aid and waste/embezzlement- and guess what? We wouldn't need to tax anymore, in fact, we could tax less, which is known to stimulate economic growth.

of course they don't look at taxes as theft, because in their mind they've created a "collective," that's so wrapped up in lies and corruption, that it will eventually crash and burn (thank God.) because never in history has infinite fake paper money,stood as a true currency with 'value.'

Besides, the US Government spends more on military than EVERY other country. We spend 48% of the entire world spending.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktocsqVh7e1qa49tx.png

This is purely to finance the Military-Industrial complex, as we have no true realistic enemies...


I've explained my views, and obviously you don't grasp them.

I believe mankind is advancing, violent crime is going down and,(most) people, live together without the use of force or violence.

Yes, there are real criminals out there, so, I'm not advocating no government right away.


but, think about it logically

-Can a corporation lie to you? No, it is illegal, corporations MUST follow any written contracts

Government, on the other hand- is allowed to lie to you. Despite the fact that it is illegal to lie to them

-can a corporation force you to buy into an expensive and endless contract/program? no they cannot.

Government on the other hand has done it many times.

-Can a corporation take your property? No.

Government does, and, sometimes you're reimbursed, but under the NDRP, Obama can take citizens property at will.

-Can a corporation kill you or others? Obviously not..

Unless they use government force.


I think my beliefs are quite clear, and much more logical than taxing more, to give to a wasteful government and, allowing this type of unfettered force, in the name of security and government help. I truly believe it is leftists and mainstream Republicans, who will go down in history as the bad guys.

It's not that you don't "mean well," by wanting to help people; you just believe it is worth being property of government, and I reject that. Before you leftists deny it, I want to say that, when you believe the government can control what I decide to put in my body, or, if I decide to motion my body a certain way (dance) that they have the physical and moral authority to control my body and actions, and I totally reject that as well.

I am my own property, and thus, I would also be protected by law. Government has failed, and, has become more lethal than any criminal or government organizations they claim to protect us from. (but, of course, it is citizens, who protect us-who join the army or "government".)

Liberals pretend that corruption is not widely spread in government, and that's entirely false.

Imho, Liberalism puts all the faith and power in the hands of government, rather than the individuals, and that's what has caused the policies of the past 100 years; bankers and industrialist.

I wonder why you think a society that abides by it's own laws, would actually have these problems. I mean, we have these problems in the first place because our government is so powerful ad wealthy, the corporations wanted to tap into that resource. Specifically for the use of force.

Now, personally- I'd like to see those individuals tried for High Treason, but, I don't think taxing them more and hiding lobbyists from the public is the way to do it..