FBI to investigate Wall Street's high frequency trading

I never said it does. They both believe in expanding government, so if you take them as being the same, perhaps they are.

But Liberals, especially Obama supporters, are just as bad as the Democrats and Republicans.

And btw- back on subject, it doesn't make sense to trust any branch of the Federal Government, they have screwed us over nearly every single time..



Why am I arguing with two Canadians about American policy?? Individual Freedom is a greater cause than anything a Dictatorial Federal Government can bring us, and this is what we already have.

So Liberalism literally continues every bad trend; they want massive wealth redistribution and, total government control.


Nothing to say about any of this??

We don't have the "Freedom" to steal other peoples money, or kill people. And neither does government. You Canadians can care less if our government is killing our citizens, cause you have no steak in the game.

So, don't even talk about it. Liberals try to put it off like I'm "crazy," because I read, and actually see what's going on. The ACLU has alot of complaints about Obama.


Civil Liberties>Government Control

 

liberalism:

 

Here's a better one then:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/04...logs&ref=highfrequencyalgorithmictrading&_r=0

It's being able to buy certain stocks before the orders put in by others are processed-- firms spending a little extra money to pay for info and using the technology to get the upper hand on other firms/institutions who can't afford to do the same.

From this article:

The high-frequency trading firms pay the stock exchanges for access to their order information, so there is no violation when they use what has been legitimately purchased.

They then use their technology to buy the ordered stocks before the orders go through. It doesn't strengthen 'everyone else's pension plan', it screws over the people whose orders go through AFTER theirs, and that effect ripples through the markets so that some people always win and some people always lose. They're essentially buying stocks that have already gone up BEFORE they've gone up.

I didn't understand a lot of what you were saying, to be honest... I'm really not sure how you got any of that from what I was saying or why you're assuming the FBI shouldn't be investigating exactly.

And yes, Wall Street has a lot of problems-- but you can't argue that just because someone has cancer they shouldn't cure themselves of leprosy.

And here's another article explaining it better:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...un-the-market-by-using-their-speed-advantage/

 

Oh wow I really think we're making a breakthrough here. I never actually realized that you thought that liberals believed that, and I had no idea freedom was being threatened so much, or that you were so sure that every single person who works in government is bad and stupid and wrong. I also never realized that you hated Obama and his supporters so much, or that you were so smart and everyone who disagrees with you is so dumb.

Thanks for clearing all of that up-- I see your point so clearly now.

 

People try to put off that you have the attention span of a gerbil because you can't stay on topic. This thread is about the SEC and high frequency trading.

 

He follows the charges laid in conversation. Ie first the troll demands definition and then says "you're stupid being off topic" - he just needs a bigger bag of troll food for the pea brain losers he is letting bait him. Is he new or something that he's even talking to this particular string of pearls haha

<< Why am I arguing with two Canadians about American policy?? Individual Freedom is a greater cause than anything a Dictatorial Federal
Government can bring us, and this is what we already have>>

That was funny.

 

The 2nd link comes up as not found, so I'll stick to the first.

For starters it comes from the NY times, a bit of sensationalism targeted at their demographic, so a story thats kind of fluffed up in the first place.

High frequency trading is in terms of milliseconds. The article mentions spoofing, which is a completely different thing, sending out large fake orders, and seems to get the two confused. Article also seems to imply no one is really sure if it breaks any rules

Just cos it gets some media attention, your attorney general gets up, oh we better do something about this, the SEC, the FBI, the NY times, doesnt mean your attorney general, or any one in those organizations understands any of it, even those in those brokerage firms, the brokers have a better understanding of financial items, but have no clue about those algorithms which one or ones are going to work best in which programs, some IT guy might, but he has no clue about the financial item they are trying to predict, then there is the barrier of those two uys being able to communicate.

We are talking milliseconds, if any one person or entity had even the smallest advantage over everyone else, by the smallest margin, lets say 0.1%, so that when they trade they know 50.005% of the time they make money, 49.995% they lose money. In a 6hr trading day there are 216,000 lots of 100milliseconds. And profit is added on each time thus compounded, doesnt take long at all to get to ridiculous amounts. I'll keep the math simple, but you'd be basically tripling your money each day, if one of these firms started off with just 100k and did actually have that 0.1% advantage, they end up with more than the Gross world product, around 90 trillion in under three weeks, the world financial system would have collapsed years ago, well before your attorney general gets up to make an arse of himself

 

I can't possibly give Oddapple all the +rep he deserves, for being so insightful into the scam, that I've been seeing for a long time.

Btw, I was threatened "banishment" for using the word Liberal, in an effort to show contrast. I never make personal insults. But insults made to me, are commonly overlooked because I'm "hard to argue with."

The real reason, is because it's true what they say "The Truth Hurts"

again, I'm accused of "going off topic."

The FBI is a Federal Organization, and I said they're not going to do anything, because they never do. and where are all these glorious Regulations meant to protect people on Wallstreet?

It's like Ron Paul says "The Companies write their own regulations as is."

I Must've said a million times that our government is in bed with corporations. It's common knowledge, and there's substantial proof- EVERYWHERE... But leftist Claim I'm making this up. and, they call me stupid and say I have the "attention span of a gerbil"


Which is really funny, cause that means the joke, in reality, is on everyone who allows their own ignorance and greed to overcome their common logic. Liberals want Humanitarian spending so bad, they don't care how many Rights are taken, people are killed or, money is wasted, as long as they get some of this seemingly infinite amount of wrongfully embezzled tax dollars.

That's why I don't let you leftists get to me, because we're seeing blowback from government overreach everywhere.

 

Hi 25

So you've come to this thread to carry on lying – why do you do that - why lie - why not actually try and argue honestly?

Where is the evidence for this claim?

The problem is you just repeat stuff that you know you can’t defend in any rational or reasonable way – just repeating stuff does not make something rational when it seems irrational and it does not make ideas seem sensible when they are liable to make a bad situation worse.

I for one am holding back on that because its what you want, to be a martyr, and because you are such a good example of what’s gone wrong on the right in US politics.

*

Anyway as I’ve said It seems to me that your constant evasion of the main criticisms of your ideas (to the point of repeatedly lying) makes me think that all this bluster, all the rants and raves, all the constant attacks on corporations and the 1% is really so much hot air, a smoke screen, a misdirection, to try and convince people you are on the side of the ‘little guy’ when you must know that all along you are in fact on the side of wealth.

I’m sure you will reply with another rant saying I’m wrong and how much you dislike the corporations etc (or you won’t reply at all) but I’m sure you will still not address the central criticisms in any rational way.

 

That is because those with right wing views ( like yourself) often seem to find it impossible to defend their ideas in any rational way and when confronted with valid criticisms seem to prefer to run away rather than have the flaws in their ideas constantly highlighted

 

Hi Balbus....

I'm not lying. You're thinking of the government.

In my inbox...
But, I don't want to blow up meagains spot. He was going to ban me, until I told him that if he banned me over free speech issues, that you guys shouldn't call yourself a "free speech forum."


Then, he said "I'm not going to ban you for your beliefs." So, I don't want people to be mad at him for trying...

You don't know what would happen, you only assume that it'd give the corporations more power.

Besides that, you're totally ignoring the fact that the corporations control Obama, and most other politicians.

That's common Knowledge. I've even posted images of who is behind Obama's election. It was JP Morg[FONT=Verdana]an, Goldm[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]an S[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]achs [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and, the s[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ame elite b[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ankers th[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]at were behind Bush.


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feel differently from you

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Ha... You're living under a rock, my friend.


I've told you, and other Liberals why I feel the way I do.

It's totally logical; In fact, it is much more logical than putting the power in the hands of an elite few, and expecting them to limit themselves.

My views are only those which would protect Liberty, and Human life.

Just because you don't want to believe what I'm saying, you call me a liar, and say I can't defend my views.


Libertarianism is more than a political party, it is an ideology that understands force on peaceful and non-violent people, is morally wrong and unjustified. Therefore, 99-100% of the Federal Government, is morally wrong.

I would be willing to converse about any/all of this, but, you always claim I don't address criticisms, even when I blow them out of the water.

The problem with Liberalism, is, in their ideology; they believe, no one is going to fix the world, unless it is government.

That's why you, fraggle and others, desperately try to "prove" me wrong.


But, our system is ran by the highest bidder, and that's painfully obvious...




The thing is, Liberals are fixated on Obama, and don't blame him for anything. What I stand up for, is the individuals Rights.

I will never believe the lie that government is some great protector. They kill citizens, spy on citizens and, violate the Constitution, and you claim my views help the wealthy??

No, you Leftist believe the Liberal Media, with no second guesses, questions or, opposition- which, is very, very dangerous.

In Libertarianism, you own yourself. You're NOT controlled by a collective of 51%. You're not told what you can eat, drink or, smoke. Corporations would have less power than they do today, due to liability and laws which restrict things they already get away with...

Half of all americans, live in heavily populated areas. The biggest downfall with Leftist (coming from an ex-Liberal) is, they put waaayyy to much faith in the idea that government is "fixing everything," or will fix everything.

What you're really doing, is asking government to step in with their guns, to FORCE your will unto others, with no choice otherwise. Which, again is morally wrong.

Under my system, It would only get better, not worse. The Corporations today,control the government, and can use force at will. This is why my views favor freedom and hard-work. It doesn't favor the people who have made their living off the back of the taxpayer; There are tons of corporations who have done just that...

but, they can only do this crap through government.

I know you will repeat the same damn things, because you refuse to think of the US government in a negative way...


But, people who are awake, will not keep paying and working for our own enslavement. "For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction."

It is the government who started killing citizens, spying on citizens and, taking our Rights. I believe it's very foolish to expect them to fix anything, or, help anyone (without money/power)



"If it was possible for men, who exercise their reason to believe, that the divine Author of our existence intended a part of the human race to hold an absolute property in, and an unbounded power over others, marked out by his infinite goodness and wisdom, as the objects of a legal domination never rightfully resistible, however severe and oppressive, the inhabitants of these colonies might at least require from the parliament of Great-Britain some evidence, that this dreadful authority over them, has been granted to that body"-Declaration of the Colonies-





IMO, individuals aren't property of the States or Country in which they are born.We should all have the freedom and Right, to do what we please with our own body, without forceful governmental limitations. This is good for the citizens, especially those who've paid into this system, and received nothing back.


If it were up to Liberals, nothing would change except expanding government. (and we all see how that works out..)

 

No, you just don't understand Libertarianism, nor do you understand the problems facing this country.

anytime I make a post somewhat Controversial, you move it to the "Conspiracy" forum, and often say I'm spreading lies or conspiracies, when you obviously can't even take a second, to look up what I say, and see if it's true.

Besides that, you ignore every bad thing the government does, because you're one of those people, who believe that the Government can have unfettered power, as long as they are stealing weekly from my paycheck, to give to people who refuse to work...


Liberalism is just like Communism; a lie in essence, to give the majority of money and power to an elite few, while keeping the rest content and in love with their serfdom.
You Liberals are a prime example. Obama is just like Bush, yet, he's treated like a hero by you leftists. Despite the fact that he has taken far more freedom than Bush, and places himself above the Rule of law and Constitution.



NO ONE is above the Constitution, especially not government. and, when we have all these laws we KNOW are not Constitutional, supporting Obama makes one part of the problem...

 

25

Surprise, surprise I get a rant that answers nothing

Once more you make a BIG show of being against the corporations and the evil elite - BUT once again you refuse to address the criticisms that you would leave or most like increase the power and influence of wealth, through tax cuts, deregulation and the lessening or removal of public assistance.

And you continue to lie

Again I ask you to produce the evidence that you have blown the criticisms out of the water.

You’ve told me and others that we are wrong because, to you we are wrong – but you produce no rational or reasonable counter arguments, nothing, nada zilch.

The more you bluster the more it seems like an act – it’s like you have some play list – I mean you threw out in the last reply – the American Revolution of 1776...the US Constitution…the Rule of Law…Human Rights…and of course freedom – and how ‘liberals’ were against all of them – it really does seem like you have a list of button you’ve been told to push - what we going to get next ‘liberals’ hating mum’s homemade apple pie?

 

I had a long ass reply, and I fucking lost it all...


I'm really pissed, so, wait like a day, I'm not retyping all that shit today...

 

I will give 1 example though, that I gave in the post I lost:

Let's say you and I are walking, and, we see a homeless man. Then, I pull out
a gun and point it at you, and say "Give me your money, I want to give it away in your name"


To Leftists, this is fine, because the homeless guy got fed. They fail to realize, that you are being victimized by me (government)

The only way to truly receive freedom, is through voluntary means; You have
a moral obligation to help others. But, the moment you force someone into compliance, you're violating their freedom, and taking money that was earned fair and square...

The Liberal ideology relies on government force, to impose their will.


I'll reply more later.. I remember what I said, but it's annoying to retype it all...

 

If Obama is like Bush, then he is not a liberal. Bush was not a liberal. Bush was not even remotely left wing. Obama is not left wing either, he is only left wing when you compare him to the most batshit insane reactionaries, of which there are many in the US.

If taxation is theft, then stop paying them-- and stop using our hospitals, schools, railroads, buses, technologies, fuels, highways, fire departments, police departments, and health care. Make your own! I mean, if you're so great at providing for yourself, why do you even need to rely on the things built by other people's money?

Nobody is going to hold a gun to your head and force you to give them money. The absolute worst thing that can happen if you don't pay your taxes is they will tell you to pay them. Prison is the most extreme thing, saved for mostly for wealthy people with long histories of trying to cheat. You are exaggerating and you're ignorant.

Your entire argument rests on the idea that there are only two ways that any country anywhere in the world could possibly do things-- choose a corrupt government that will oppress them and turn them into slaves, or get rid of the government (or weaken it to the point where it has zero authority) and be free.

Your argument only works when you completely ignore the fact that there are 195 other countries in the world, each with their own style of government, culture, and belief system.

If you had actually looked into these things, you might be capable of developing valid points to help your 'ideas', btw.

 

Hospitals are privately owned, so I can use hospitals all I want..

Government Schools are shitty anyway. They try to be soo "politically correct," that there is no real "sex education," or morality/religion allowed in school. I wouldn't want my kid to go to such an indoctrination center, anyway..

Buses and railroads in NY, are private, (owned by companies.) also, it costs money to get on.. That means it's a service, and I can decide to buy in or opt out.

Technologies?? The only type of technology the government produces, is that of war. Our GOVERNMENT doesn't develop Ipods or computers, it's private industry that does that, and government feeds off of their glory...

This is constantly what I hear out of you Leftists. "Omg, without government, who will fix the roads?" "The police/fire dept is government."

Many-most Fire Departments are voluntary, as I believe the Country should be. They see that Fires start, and individuals need help, so they offer their time and livelihood to help others.


Police abuse their power constantly. america has the most overcrowded prisons in the world, and it is due to our Drug Policy, of arresting people for non-violent crimes.

I would LOVE to have nothing to do with the Federal Government, however, you and I both know that it's illegal to "opt out." We have no such option.

This virtually makes no sense. It's like me saying "If you don't like corporations, why do you shop at them?"

and the answer is, there is no way around it.

and With corporations, it's not like you're being FORCED to buy their product. (unlike government)

Lmao.. You, are the ignorant one, and you're directly lying and avoiding my points PURPOSELY.

The point I was making with the "gun to the head" example, was that, Government uses force to impose their will.

and you even said, "Prison is the 'most extreme' thing." That doesn't make that force Justified, and, you leftists can say wtvr you like, but, it is essentailly the same thing as forcing someone at gunpoint. The reason being, is that the police have guns, and they typically arrest people by raiding their homes, shooting their dogs and, taking them away at GUNPOINT.

Moreover, how can you possibly even say that?? (in bold)

The Richest/wealthiest are hardly ever punished. Especially to members in government, who deceive the people and, cause utter disarray.

I have never said those are the "only" two options. But, if you think we're in a "happy medium" today, you're more ignorant than I thought.

The problem I have, is the Unconstitutional Laws that are already in place. I have tons of topics on that subject. and, I support Human Rights, and our government is the biggest enemy of that, and it is painfully obvious.

I believe the Role of Government is to protect life, liberty and, property and NOTHING else. I don't think the government is some greater force for good, and I don't believe this is a "happy medium." Government is far too involved with our personal lives, that they believe they have the authority to ban the very motions of our own bodies, (dancing,) and, they've gone too far, there is no happy medium in such an oppressed society.

So, how do you fix that system?
I don't believe it's by continuing everything, raising taxes, expanding government and, giving gov. even greater power and control, without any questions asked.

To me, that is what Liberalism does..

More lies.. I know there are other countries out there. So, what?? It doesn't mean we need to do what they do, or surrender Our Founding Documents and, principles because other countries believe differently..


I've said other countries may want something different, and, not all government is corrupt. However, I believe that "needing" government, is basically like saying "Human beings are too stupid to live together peacefully, so we need a group of people with guns, to force everyone else into compliance of what (some people believe is) 'morality'."

When really, they (and by that I mean the US Government, and their sympathizers,) justify any and every immoral act in it's name..

They justify putting people in prison for drugs.


They justify people being murdered by our government (for speech crimes)

They justify government spying on 75% of the Citizens.

They justify endless war in the Middle East

They justify a militant Israel, occupying neighboring Countries (who have no conventional army.) Despite the fact that, Israel is a World Super power.

What we are facing, is not small isolated incidents of corruption, but a rather a widely spread racket, that has been expanding since the "war on drugs" started in the 60's. Not only did the government decide they can tell you what plants, you may or may not ingest, but, they also expanded rapidly after the 1960's, and we've also had the Military-Industrial complex (which is also entwined with government.)

I believe The biggest mistake of the Liberalism/leftist ideology, is thinking that they somehow don't support these same exact things, despite the fact that their politicians put these exact things into policy, and are also bought and paid for, just like Republican Candidates. The real issue isn't Dems V Con, Left V Right or, us V them- in contrast, it is a realization that every Human being has true, Natural-born Rights, that no government or institution on the planet Earth, can violate.

Yet, today, it is done right in front of our faces, and the citizens on both sides say nothing, because one side (Right) wants military protection, instead of freedom, and the other side (left) wants Humanitarian spending in exchange for their freedom.

Meanwhile, a voluntary society, not only answers these issues, but, I believe a voluntary society would be much freer and fairer than the system that we have.

Taxation is theft- You can talk about the police, firemen and, roads, all you want; However, we should demand that the government show us, how they received such extraordinary amount of power of the lives of individuals. Who gave them this power? The people gave them powers delegated through the Constitution, for the protection of our Rights and nothing else.

However, today the Constitution is just a relic, of how some 'radicals' once fought against tyranny. But with tyranny all around us, even you can admit it's rather ironic, no??

Like I said, I know there's other countries out there, but this country is ours, and we have founding Rights that many of us take VERY seriously...

 

Obama is left wing; a majority of leftists support him, and his ideals. I said he is like Bush because he is. But IMO wanting to expand government, and give government total control, is more of a leftist thing. I mean, I know there's fascism too, but, I reject the leftist notion that an individual is owned by the collective and the government, Obama, in contrast, has that in common with the left-wing also..

 

also, I think this shows who works for the people, and, who works for themselves with no oversight, out of government or corporations..



http://rt.com/usa/156276-apple-facebook-nsa-public-requests/

 

Can you provide any evidence that "a majority of leftists support him, and his ideals?"

Also, in what ways was Bush left-wing? If Obama is exactly like Bush, and Obama is left-wing, then Bush must be.