Falluja

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by Zonk, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Zonk

    Zonk Banned

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    Wow! Your mother could've told you that about me....you should've asked her!;)
     
  2. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    I thought you were a communist, not a democrat?

    Dude, you should take up slogan writing for election campaigns. Really. You have that particular vacuous style.

    And there was me thinking it was the fault of the people doing the killing. How naive and old fashioned of me!
     
  3. Bogsrific

    Bogsrific Banned

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    My mum died when I was 5 years old, asshole!
     
  4. Zonk

    Zonk Banned

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    Mine died a few months ago.

    Stop calling me asshole...arsehole!
     
  5. Bogsrific

    Bogsrific Banned

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    You live the role all too well.
     
  6. Zonk

    Zonk Banned

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    Thanks;)
     
  7. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    Oh man! That's such a coincidence! I think I saw that snuff movie! :p
     
  8. Zonk

    Zonk Banned

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    How do you come out with those one liners man? Impressive!;)
     
  9. Bogsrific

    Bogsrific Banned

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    THAT'S impressive? Perhaps, in this forum, it is.
     
  10. Zonk

    Zonk Banned

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    Maybe you shouldn't just walk in and call people an 'asshole' then should you.;)
     
  11. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    Not as impressive as your mother. You really should try and get a copy of that film. I bet all your friends have seen it. Now I come to think of it, I'm sure a few of them were in it..... ;)

    Oh yeah, [ignore] time :)
     
  12. Claire

    Claire Senior Member

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    I agree
     
  13. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Much like what's going on in Fallujah. I'm shocked that people like TrollBot can actually celebrate it, and can be happy at the killing of a person just so long as the American government tells him it's a "terrorist". Sickening.:(
     
  14. 2hot2handle

    2hot2handle Member

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    I am very proud of being American. i dont agree with many of the political things happening but there is a bigger picture.. if you cant see where this impacts terrorism on a large scale them i find it hard to believe u are that well educated on the topic... i take my information good and bad not from the political media from the government but from those actually living in this situation... they are not brain washed into being killers.. actually many that i know are the most caring ppl. they have families and problems they deal with everyday too.. if they where brain washed they would feel nothing and care about no one, only the mission. Although many dont agree with what we as a country are doing many do.. and those who dont need to look back in history to see how America's unpopular choices have changed the world ... and probably the country u are in in a posative way. i have mourned for losses of lives from the U.S. and else where and thank god everyday that some one is doing something to try to make the world better in yrs to come for my son's generation. the ppl who choose to talk trash about what this war is about could go to several other countries with authoritarian rule and see what its like.... the iraqi ppl are not mostly anti american like the news would like you to think.... everything comes at a cost and yes this loss is high but the iraqi ppl have been being torchered and killed needlessly for a long time.. at least they have hope now! there is much good going on... you can believe what you wish because we have that right... the iraqi ppl deserve it too in my opinion.
     
  15. Claire

    Claire Senior Member

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    The incidents of terrorist acts havent increased... just the media coverage has.

    Iraqi people do deserve freedom and all that comes with it I agree.

    War IS NOT peace however.... We can not make the world a better place with war and all that comes with war.
     
  16. Koolaid

    Koolaid Member

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    As Einstein once said " Peace cannot be kept through force, it can only be achieved through understanding"
     
  17. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    This war had nothing to do with terrorism. The classic justification is that the war was in reaction to the nebulous risk of al-Qaeda obtaining WMD material from Saddam. But it is proven there was no link between Saddam and al-Qaeda, so this was always unlikely. It was also evident well before the war that Saddam had little or no usable WMD anyway. UNMOVIC was doing a very successful job of verifying that Iraq had no WMD in line with the stipulations of UNSCR687 (1991). And needless to say, it has since been confirmed that there were no WMD in Iraq: this risk was a fiction, a fantasy. Contrary to saving us from terrorism, this war has increased the threat of terrorism in the middle east and around the world by turning Iraq into a crucible and a focus for militant anti-western sentiment.

    So all that remains is the humanitarian justification. One which was never used prior to invasion because invading a sovereign state for the purpose of regime change contravenes international law. But the humanitarian justification is a sophistry and a falsehood anyway. Saddam's atrocities such as the Anfaal and the suppression of the Shia were historical, and happened respectively when the West was supporting / arming Saddam in one case and as a direct result of the first gulf war in the other. There had been no atrocities, no mass graves for the twelve years prior to this war. This war is the cause of suffering in Iraq today. The West's involvement with Iraq has never been the slightest bit concerned with the protection of human freedoms or saving the lives of ordinary people. In fact if you add together the deaths caused by the West in Iraq from the 1991 war onwards; the brutal sanctions regime; the constant bombing; the 2003 war and occupation, you arrive at a number of deaths of civilians in the same order of magnitude as that of the deaths of civilians caused by Saddam in his political repressions of the Iraqi people. Humanitarian war? No.

    This war was not one of necessity but one of strategic option. It was known that the war would result in tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths. It was known that an invasion of Iraq would increase the likelihood of terrorism - a specific warning of this was given by the UK intelligence services to Tony Blair. The war suited the long term economic, energy security and full spectrum military dominance interests of the US. That's why you are fighting.
     
  18. taterbug_36

    taterbug_36 Banned

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    I think whether you support the war or not, we have to support our troops...and that doesn't mean just tie a ribbon on a tree or slap a ribbon magnet on your car. To trash anotherarmyguy while he is over there serving so you and I don't have to is WRONG!
     
  19. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Why? I have nothing against these people personally, and I don't think anyone has "trashed" them. But I will not stand up in defence of something I know to be illegal and to be causing more harm to the people of Iraq than it is bringing good.

    The Nuremberg trials established the notion that "just following orders" is not a justification for one's behaviour in time of war. If one believes an action to be illegal or immoral one has a duty to disobey orders and to refuse to support it. In the case of this war, I would encourage the troops to refuse to obey their orders and desert.
     
  20. TreeHouse

    TreeHouse Member

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    Rubbish, if we had not gone to war after September 11th that would have allowed Al Qaeda and every other terrorist a free reign. If we had not gone to war with Iraq, Iraq would not now be on its way to democracy. You have to use war sometimes to defeat the enemies of democracy and freedom like the current war to defeat the terrorist insurgents in Iraq.
     

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