Everything Collective-Unconscious Discussion Thread!

i'm aware of this perspective, but my own dreams just don't work that way, i have no idea what other people in my dreams are thinking, any more then i do in real life from the same sort of hints.
they're just, i don't meet people in them that often at all, and when i do, they are just not hint at all of their being any kind of puppets. its more like just a completely natural parallel universe.
the only thing different, is i can SOMETIMES make things, just like i do on the computer, only in apearant real life without the computer, and if i wonder what the view looks like from someplace, wondering that teleports me there, again not always, but sometimes more often then i wish because i'd usually rather ride something and see more of the scenery in between.
bottom line: my dreams are not about people. they are about places. not places in this universe, but places in the parallel universe they take place in.

 

Okay dreams are just one thing you can find the presence of archetypes. And your mind is a big thing so big, You have only explored some part of it. It takes great practice to be able to be fully conscious in dreams. You can also try Active Imagination to know the presence of archetypes. If you can meditate and listen to your mind Also You can know the kinda thoughts that goes on inside the layers of the mind. The voices. You will start hearing them. Not just one, Tons..
You should also explore the concept of 'shadow' and 'collective shadow' A Shadow is everything you judge/condemn/reject about yourself/others. Everytime you judge other things, You judge yourself and create kinda of a split personality in you. I will post some things from articles i find on internet.

 

"Carl Jung exhibited the sort of serene wisdom that is usually reserved for the reclusive-hermit-sage. Yet, he arrived at his personal “wholeness” not through the traditional route of Christian grace or Buddhist meditation, but through scientific and psychological means. Delving into his own troubled mind and reflecting on the neuroses of his patients, he arrived at an unsettling insight.

We must learn to accept our own darkness if we want to overcome our own neurosis.

Without this self-acceptance, our attempts to help others will be futile, both on an individual and global level.

Alan Watts said that Jung intimately embraced his own dark side and:

[H]e would not condemn the things in others and would therefore not be lead into those thoughts, feelings, and acts of violence towards others which are always characteristic of the people who project the devil in themselves upon the outside – upon somebody else – upon the scapegoat.
Whenever we refuse to accept our feelings and thoughts, however disturbing they might be, we experience psychological dissonance. Dissonance happens when our behavior does not match our self-image, or the image we think others might have of us. When we project our shadow onto others, we refuse ownership of ourselves, distancing ourselves from ourselves, losing ourselves in the process. This, according to Jung, is how neurosis finds a way to take over the psyche.


In a lecture delivered to Swiss clergymen, Carl Jung shared some of his deepest insights on this topic.

Alan Watts believes this was the greatest thing Carl Jung ever wrote:

People forget that even doctors have moral scruples, and that certain patient’s confessions are hard even for a doctor to swallow. Yet the patient does not feel himself accepted unless the very worst in him is accepted too.
No one can bring this about by mere words; it comes only through reflection and through the doctor’s attitude towards himself and his own dark side. If the doctor wants to guide another, or even accompany him a step of the way, he must feel with that person’s psyche. He never feels it when he passes judgment. Whether he puts his judgments into words or keeps them to himself makes not the slightest difference.
To take the opposite position and to agree with the patient offhand is also of no use but estranges him as much as condemnation. Feeling comes only through unprejudiced objectivity. This sounds almost like a scientific precept, and it could be confused with a purely intellectual, abstract attitude of mind. But what I mean is something quite different.
It is a human quality, a kind of deep respect for the facts, for the man who suffers from them, and for the riddle of such a man’s life. The truly religious person has this attitude. He knows that God has brought all sorts of strange and inconceivable things to pass and seeks in the most curious ways to enter a man’s heart. He therefore senses in everything the unseen presence of the divine will.
This is what I mean by “unprejudiced objectivity.” It is a moral achievement on the part of the doctor, who ought not to let himself be repelled by sickness and corruption. We cannot change anything unless we accept it.
Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses. I am the oppressor of the person I condemn, not his friend and fellow-sufferer. I do not in the least mean to say that we must never pass judgment when we desire to help and improve. But if the doctor wishes to help a human being he must be able to accept him as he is. And he can do this in reality only when he has already seen and accepted himself as he is.
Perhaps this sounds very simple, but simple things are always the most difficult. In actual life it requires the greatest art to be simple, and so acceptance of oneself is the essence of the moral problem and the acid test of one’s whole outlook on life.
That I feed the beggar, that I forgive an insult, that I love my enemy in the name of Christ, all these are undoubtedly great virtues. What I do unto the least o’ my brethren, that I do unto Christ.
But what if I should discover that the least amongst them all, the poorest of all beggars, the most impudent of all offenders, yeah, the very fiend himself, that these are within me, and that I myself stand in need of the alms of my own kindness, that I myself am the enemy who must be loved. What then?
Then, as a rule, the whole truth of Christianity is reversed: there is then no more talk of love and long-suffering; we say to the brother within us “Raca,” and condemn and rage against ourselves. We hide him from the world, we deny ever having met this least among the lowly in ourselves, and had it been God himself who drew near to us in this despicable form, we should have denied him a thousand times before a single cock had crowed.
Anyone who uses modern psychology to look behind the scene not only of his patients’ lives, but more especially of his own life—and the modern psychotherapist must do this if he is not to be merely an unconscious fraud—will admit that to accept himself in all his wretchedness is the hardest of tasks, and one which it is almost impossible to fulfill.
The very thought can make us sweat with fear. We are therefore only too delighted to choose, without a moment’s hesitation, the complicated course of remaining in ignorance about ourselves while busying ourselves with other people and their troubles and sins. This activity lends us a perceptible air of virtue, by means of which we benevolently deceive ourselves and others. God be praised, we have escaped from ourselves at last!
There are countless people who can do this with impunity, but not everyone can, and these few break down on the road to their Damascus and succumb to a neurosis. How can I help these people if I myself am a fugitive, and perhaps also suffer from the morbus sacer of a neurosis? Only he who has fully accepted himself has “unprejudiced objectivity.”
It is only when you have seen and accepted your own capacity for fear, shame, and judgment that you can truly see the other for what she or he is. Without this acceptance we avoid parts of the other, simply because we are reminded of these in ourselves. And thus, no true connection, nor genuine compassion, can arise.


Jung understood this deeply, and this is why Alan Watts said:

[Jung] was the sort of man who could feel anxious and afraid and guilty without being ashamed of feeling this way. In other words, he understood that an integrated person is not a person who has simply eliminated the sense of guilt or the sense of anxiety from his life – who is fearless and wooden and kind of sage of stone. He is a person who feels all these things, but has no recriminations against himself for feeling them.

What happens in the psyche when we act as if some parts of us aren’t really ours? When we search for external reasons why we behave the way we do? When we want to hide certain parts from all the eyes of the world, including our own?

According to Jung, we end up with a personality that is split, or a more fitting term, “unwhole.”

Jung writes:

Neurosis is an inner cleavage — the state of being at war with oneself. Everything that accentuates this cleavage makes the patient worse, and everything that mitigates it tends to heal him. What drives people to war with themselves is the suspicion or the knowledge that they consist of two persons in opposition to one another. The conflict may be between the sensual and the spiritual man, or between the ego and the shadow. It is what Faust means when he says: “Two souls, alas, dwell in my breast apart.” A neurosis is a splitting of personality.
To heal a split in self, a person needs to work with their shadow and learn uncomfortable truths about themselves in the process. Our inner war is softened when we allow ourselves to be seen. Not just the side of ourselves that matches our intersubjective ideal — that is easy. We show those feathers prominently. No, we need to accept our failures and shortcomings too.'

Jung concludes:

No doubt this also sounds very simple. In reality, however, the acceptance of the shadow-side of human nature verges on the impossible. Consider for a moment what it means to grant the right of existence to what is unreasonable, senseless, and evil!


"The shadow is a psychological term for everything we can’t see in ourselves. I understood how important knowing my shadow was when I wrote a biography of a spiritual teacher. Most of us go to great lengths to protect our self-image from anything unflattering or unfamiliar. And so it’s easier to observe another’s shadow before acknowledging one’s own shadow. Seeing the shadow of this teacher helped me understand how someone can show gifts in one area of life while remaining unaware of poor behavior in other areas. Every human being is susceptible to this. I find working with my shadow a rewarding, yet challenging process. Exploring your shadow can lead to greater authenticity, creativity, energy, and personal awakening. This introspective process is essential for reaching mature adulthood (which is rarer than most think). Let’s inspect what the shadow is and how it comes into being …"

Archetypes: A Practical Guide to Inner Work Using Archetypes
Archetypes List: The Ultimate List of Over 325 Archetypes
Shadow Work: A Complete Guide to Getting to Know Your Darker Half

Source of this article
Carl Jung On Why We Must Learn To Accept Ourselves Before We Can Help Others

 

"If you hate a person, You hate something in him that is part of yourself… What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us"

 

i read "man and his symbols" a long time ago. has no connection with random strangers i meet, either in life or in dreams.
people are people, not symbols for anything. and people in my dreams are just the same way, just random strangers who have no more intrinsic numinosity for me,
then random strangers in real life. they're just, no offense to anyone, but just part of the scenery, like a building or a tree.
i don't love or hate a building or a tree, why should i have to love or hate someone off in the distance getting on or off a bus?

 

I've not read that book or any books of such kind. I've never talked about any symbols. The title of the forum was different. It was all inclusive and Archetypes was just a word amongst them but ZenKarma Edited the rest out because it was long, It was like Everything archetypes/Subpersonalities(same thing)/voices/CollectiveMind/WhateverPeopleLikeToCallTheseThings. The point of this Thread is, you are not just what you think you are ( the ego) if you read the whole thread, you will understand what i was trying to express. So here i thought we could discuss about it. The rest of our mind. that is. But What is your point?

 

And you are watching it all, you are the watcher, not the watched. Right? The point is whatever you call the things you watch, You are watching it, you are the dreamer not the dreamed up things. You are consciousness that witnesses these things. Here you witness all these things around, There you witness those things around. But most of us is not even aware of 1% Of our mind ( or whatever you want to call it) Where all these things happen. So we discuss about all those things that happen there here in this thread. Everything is your mind. Whatever you can feel. I'm inside your mind too. Its happening within you.

 

so this is something someone jamed together. words have meanings. this is why we have dictionaries. archtypes are symbols.
as for my only point, these symbols are culturally defined and culturally dependent.
and while many people may dream in symbols, or so i've been told, this is not universal, and i stand generally as an exception to doing so.

 

i don't have to dream a tree to stub my toe on one.

we do not live in a universe who's sole reason to exist is to make it possible for us to live in it.

and again, why should i have to love or hate anything, in order for it to exist?

also, just out of curiosity, how are you quoting "jung writes", if you haven't read what he has written?

 

You should probably give the whole thread a read and watch the scientific videos. You will understand the point of this thread. And then again, Archetypes was just one word. Its all the same thing expressed in different ways, different people expresses it in different ways. if you watch these videos, You will understand

 

Without watching these videos and reading the whole thread if you are going to argue about it, i won't be able to reply to your messages. You just are like not open to new ideas here and sticking with what you think you know.

 

that's nice. argue about what?

also yes, its just one word.

the one word you used,
and then went off to talk about something else entirely.

 

Did you read the whole thread? We already covered Everything you said. if you read the whole thread you would understand. If you can't read the whole thread and just want to argue, You can do that in other threads, there are thousands of em here. If your mindset is not compatible with the thread i created, I'm not forcing you to read it am i? If you want to understand what i'm trying to say, You have to read the whole thing.

 

Its all the same thing There is no difference, Not even a tiny bit. You will only understand it if you watch the scientific videos about it.

 

no one "has to" do or not do anything.
there are however, a great many things it would be a very good idea to not do.
especially those which make more difficult other people's lives.

also yes, non-physical things can exist,
though their existence can be neither proven nor disproven.

the parallel universe in which my dreams take place is an example of something that cannot be proven nor disproven objectively, though that doesn't entirely require it to be non-physical either.

i seem to recall someone i met once upon a time, who in that context went by the name of eshari.

my most recent encounter, she was giving a panel at a convention,
with the apearant intend to teaching people how to lucid dream.

 

And if you are here to argue without even trying to understand it, without reading everything i've written and the scientific videos i shared here, Its just lame .

 

Its @ZenKarma That edited the title out. Changed it. it was all inclusive, dude.

 

I'm not interested in words. I barely know english words. And i just share some articles that i find on internet that resonates with the thing i want to share, i quoted carl jung because he understood these things really well, when i google about it. I've not read any of his books, i don't need to. i meditate.

 

If you are focusing on 'words' and their meanings, you won't see the patterns here. You won't be able to see the connection. if you want to understand it, the connection and how its related, forget words and watch the videos and read it again.