Europe vs. the USA

Dude you got to be kidding right, I live in the states, where the hell are you living. You might want to recheck your facts dear.

 

You need to read "America Is Number One"... it shows how America is "number one" in way too many negative ways.

Unless this was a sarcastic post, as an American I am ashamed that a fellow American would post crap like this. It has to be sarcastic, because almost every "fact" stated is false.

Here are some facts, with actual sources to back them up...

# The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).

# The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

# Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

# "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).


# American workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

# "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

# "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70).

# Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).

# Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

# The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

# "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

# Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

# "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

# Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).

# The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

# Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

# The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

# "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

# "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

# "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

# The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005).

# U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

# Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

# Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.

# Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

# As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

# Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.

# One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).

# "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).

# "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

# Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

# "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004). # "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

#Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).

#The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

#Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

#"Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).

 

Proud to be European...

 

Actually, Bird Migration is from the Netherlands.

and you guys just helped prove that stupidity is universal.

 

Well,this all proves for certain that the republican agenda is working quite well,does it not?An ignorant populace is a compliant populace.

 

in accordance to his post and the replies to it, does it really matter to the debate where he was from? That's a kinda stupid thing to say...

 

Judging something without trying to understand what it's about is where stupidity comes from (feel free to prove me right about that as many times as you like).

 

so you're saying we should do a background check before replying? Man that's stupid...

 

Keep going, you're doing great!

 

okay I know you're trying to patronize me, but really... I mean as I've done that lots of times myself, you have to see that that one was just too thin... You need to support it, or you'll just seem stupid... Which isn't your point...

Now I bet if it wasn't because I'd already suggested it your reply would be something like " oh man, you're so smart" or "hahaha, you're really proving my point " and you might just even repeat one of them exactly to try to make fun of me... I'm just gonna say before hand those are lame...

Birds post was, in the light of his dutchness, it was pretty cool in the rearview mirror... But I think you should stop now, I mean... He made a good joke, so you just, bugger off... it's lame to make "points" off of other people's jokes...

 

Not at all, I'm just being polite.

You keep asking questions and answerring them yourself and I didn't want to interrupt.

Please continue (I'm interested to see what else is going on in my head that I wasn't aware of).

 

I've made my point...

 

I only joined this argument to weigh the ups and downs of living in either the US or Europe. To judge people by where they're from is moronic. I think it is a valuable discussion to compare the living standards of various places, a good exchange of information! After spending three months in Europa, I can more accurately have my opinion weighed. I am not presumptious enough to declare myself an expert, after three scant months. These, however, are my impressions:
Ireland: I only spent 2 days here, I would have stayed longer, but I didn't have shelter from the rain! {I now know people outside of Cork}
Upon arriving at the airport (Shannon), I was the only person on the whole airplane to be searched by customs. (I'm used to this kind of discrimination where I'm from) I hadn't slept in over twenty hours, so I probably looked like I was on drugs. This goofy little Irish guy was going through my backpack.
"You better just tell me where you're hiding your drugs," he says.
I roll my eyes. "If I wanted to use drugs," I said, "I would go to Amsterdam, I wouldn't bring them on an airplane from America."
A little light bulb appears above his head. He doesn't finish searching my pack. "Have a nice trip," he said.
Busking in Cork was a great experience. Playing the electric mandolin, I made 15 euros in half an hour, and was getting hit on by a dreamy girl. She got pissed off when I told her I was flying to France the following day.
"Just so you know, all French people are assholes," she says.
France: After visiting France, I will disagree with her. I don' t think French people are stuck up, I just think they are better than us!
Seriously, my first impression of France (flying into Paris) are policemen with machine guns and muzzled attack dogs. This was right after all these major riots I'd read about. Later on I heard a story from a university kid. (I don't know how to spell the town, somewhere in the south, sounds like Mon-plee-ay, something like that)
He told me how the students took over the university for TWO months! They were living there, rainbow style, I find this to be hilarious! Then the cops showed up, smashed their musical instruments, and made them leave.
One thing about French kids, they don't like something, they'll have a revolution.
The girls in France are a different breed. I don't know how women can be so beautiful!
When I spoke English, people looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. That's okay, French is the nicest sounding language, anyways.
Using the international language of music, I made good impressions on a couple of French brothers who happened across me playing my guitar in the Paris gutter at 3:45 in the morning. We couldn't understand a word the other was saying, but I could tell that I left a profound impression on these guys. All in all, I find France and its inhabitants to be adorable, I'd like to spend more time there and take some French classes. Their social problems seem to stem from over crowding (and immigration). I would tell European kids (I was surprised how uninformed many of them are about America) how much space we have over here and they would get jealous. (Idaho is the about the same size as Germany, and has only 2 million people, Deutchsland 80+). We definitely are hogging up too much space over here, especially Canada. (Canada, the second largest country, 36 million, or something like that)
Italy: Looking at a map in Nice, I'm trying to decide where to go. 'Venezia,' that looks like a nice place. I get a train ticket and arrive there at night, the streets are empty.
'This place is cool.' I'm playing my guitar, having a great time, I was there for about five hours before it dawned on me. 'Wait a second, is this Venice?'
Ha ha . Silly American. But hey, it's not my fault they gave me a shitty education. (Not everywhere in America has a lousy school system, and some places are improving) Italia is my favorite country in Europa so far. The people sound like little birds singing to each other, and gelato is divine! I wasn't a stranger to Italian ice cream before going there, but this is one area that definitely has us beat! Also, it is less expensive to buy cheese, wine, bread; you've also got us beat there.
Europe has a better social system. You don't see homeless people the way you do in America. And, you can take a train anywhere.
Italy is economically poor, but rich in spirit! The ancient architecture can't be beat, but these are our ancestors, too, remember, we have the same gene pool, cousin!
Greece: I have to admit that I got some pretty evil stares in Greece, a white boy with long hair and beard. (They don't see many Montana cowboy hats over there) Still, I made friends. I was only there for about a week, but I did enjoy my multi culture shock experience. Mostly I just hung on the beach and perused the ruins. I was impressing some girls with my mando until some creepy cab driver scared them away. I remember somebody in this thread said that he'd seen Americans, who are usually noisy, get real solemn and quiet. That's because we don't know the language, Einstein! If I'd grown up in Europe, I'm positive I'd know 3 maybe 4 languages. You'd have to, if you like to travel. In Greece, the road signs also are printed in English. I'll count myself lucky, in this regard. Somebody always knew English everywhere I went, some places more than others. I like to think this is because of America's influence, if somebody has a different story, please correct me.
Buying a soda from a corner kiosk in Athens, a man asks me:
"Where're you from?"
"America."
He waves his friend over to introduce.
"America, Afghanistan."
I never felt any anomosity. I expressed to this guy that I hated the US military as much as him. (Though I can't be certain this is true.)
Any American reading this who stands up for war, I say get Uncle Sam's d**k out of your mouth
reap what you sow, moron.
Austria/Germany: I'm going to group these two together, to the chagrin of some sort of rivalry they seem to have amongst themselves. One German tryed to tell me that the Austrian language is not German. Yes, it has its differences, but it's still German!
I lived on the Austria/Slovenian border for a month. I only spent a few hours in Slovenia, but was impressed with the beautiful country side and people. I made a Slovenian friend whom I hope to meet up with again. I met several kids from Vienna, and it took me a long time to figure out Wein. 'Wein? Wein? Oh, Vienna!'
I didn't actually make it into Wein, though I was invited to a recording studio by an old rock and roller. I got good impressions of it from the people I met, from what they told me, it seemed to be pretty hip for a city. (I'm not a city person)
Germany has a stigma around it from WWII. Hate to say it, but it's true. Now, I'm no stranger to Germans, I had a good friend in highschool who was German, and my nephews grandmother is German, I've never thought of them as anything less than precious. But, I was really kind of leery of going into Deutchsland.
Well, I was impressed at how well kept it is! The people are, for the most part, very friendly. I have to admit that I was judging it unfairly. I did get shook down by some gestapo types because of my 'hippy' like appearance. Again, I'm used to this kind of treatment in Idaho, Utah where I grew up. Some German kids who I spoke to had an unfavorable opinion about their homeland. I find this to be a recurrent theme among many people. I regret not visiting Berlin, I met a girl from there in England, right before I returned home, I guess it's a real artsy sort of place.
Switzerland: The alps of Austria/Switzerland/Italy has the top most gorgeous scenery I've ever see. Wow! Count your blessings, I say. I took a train around Bodensee, very nice. One difference between America and Europe, here mostly rich people live on steep hillsides, there, it's mostly poor people! I made a good Swiss friend whom hopefully will come to visit me in America someday.
Belguim/Luxembourg: Not what I expected at all, very beautiful. The people are very agreeable. Less intimidating than France. (For a person who only speaks English and a little Spanish) They have the best chocolate, as far as I can tell. I guess Bavaria has some pretty good ware, too, from what I've heard.
Holland: Too wet, crowded. I have nothing against the Dutch, at all. These are the same complaints I heard from them. Their politics are very progressive, this is good.
Amsterdam has its charm.
England:I took a boat from Hoek van Holland and landed in Harwich. Me, and a Muslim man were the last two in customs.
Customs man: "Where're you going? Who're you staying with?"
I didn't have anywhere to go except the rainbow gathering, so said:
"The rainbow gathering."
"What's that?"
"Um, a quasi religion, kind of like a prayer meeting."
"So, were you actually invited there by someone?"
"Everybody's invited," I say, pointing at him, "you're invited."
I think he takes this to heart, like 'oh, you invited me somewhere'.
I was getting nervous that they wouldn't let me in. As they rifled through my rucksack, I said:
"I don't know if this will help or not, but I am related to the king."
"Really?" he asks, he looks impressed.
"Yeah, really," I say.
"How're you related?" he asks.
"Grandson," I say, "of the old kings. I think Edward was the last one I'm related to."
I then go on to explain that these old kings have a lot of kids, fast forward a thousand years, there are literally millions of descendants. I'm trying to imply that he really shouldn't be impressed, but I can tell he has a new found respect for me.
After he checks the internet to see what the Rainbow Family is, he tells me I can go.
But he still has a tight grip on my passport.
"Can I have my passport?" I ask, prying it from his hand, thinking, what gives?
Waiting for the train, I am astounded to see that he gave me a six month stamp!
(Some other Americans at the gathering only got two weeks to one month)
Well, my train pass doesn't work in the UK, so I hitchiked from Colchester to Doncaster to save some money. It took a long time! It was mostly old guys who gave me lifts.
"I used to hitch hike back in the day, but you don't see hitchhikers anymore." they would say. You can hitch hike in certain parts of America, but not others.
What impressed me about England was the friendliness of the people and the quality of beer.
I was kind of expecting some sort of Utopia in Europe. What I found, is that people are basically the same everywhere you go. I already mentioned some things which I think are better. As far as America is concerned, everybody speaking the same language has its advantages. (Though it'd help if Spanish was a required course for kids) That being said, Europe is a linguist's paradise! There are definitely more smokers in Europe, many of whom don't think twice about blowing it in your face. (rude) I also witnessed the most attrocious drivers imaginable. Having to pay to use the restroom is a crime. You need to do something about this!
I regret not making it to Spain. (Next time, along with eastern Europe and Scandinavia) My verdict: Europe vs. USA.... Dual citizenship for sure!

 

Long & Interesting Post... i read it like a journal article... 1000 times more informative than the opening post !

In France u were talkin of a town called "Montpellier".... it has maybe 500 000 people livin in this south France city...
Yeah the University were takin a break... it should be cool to live that... but exept that the hippie style of community is nowhere to be found out there... this was long time ago... But i understand what you mean... there s clearly some similarities...
And French University student hear more pop rock alternative music ... they re much more open to different music... than those from "the banlieue" where they burns all those cars & buses nearly one year ago... In those poor places in the middle of desolated hight grey buildings...bein a rocker "in the Gene Vincent-Eddie Cochran" mode can be dangerous for your health... Rappers dont like difference...

I remember always a dream i've made a few months ago... I was ridin' with a stereo upon my shoulder in the middle of those dangerous quarters ... dressed a bit like an hippie... with maybe 70s Aerosmith playin in my stereo(i dont remember clearly which music it was)... man i wake up just in time... just when angry rappers where approachin' ...

This is a dream... but it can be totally true ...it s a sort of realist fiction !

But i want to know in what this is a provocation ?
In France some poor quarter can really be "dictatorial"...the laws of gangs are more important than the Republican laws... French Police dont even enter here...

 

The first post to this thread just proves the superlative, arrogant attitudes of some (perhaps most) of the American people, sad very sad.

 

'Perhaps' you shouldn't generalize.

 

A generalisation would be me saying "Americans are superlative" or "All Americans are cunts" etc. I said "some or perhaps most" (not all), therefore it is not a generalisation. This whole thread is full of generalisations, particularly the first post, which is utter bollocks.
So fuck off and come back when you've actually got a valid comment.

 

Geez you're mean

 

I'm sure I will get over it.