dying for our sins

So you accept it unquestioned that the Jesus from the NT died for your sins, but you won't even consider that StonerBill could be the jesus that dies for your sins?

Maybe you need to show them some magic tricks or something, SB...

Ever read The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors?

Here is some info on the book:

http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/redir/index424.html


More than twenty claims of this kind - claims of being invested with divine honor (deified) - have come forward and presented themselves at the bar of the world, with their credentials, to contest the verdict of Christendom, in having proclaimed Jesus Christ, "the only son, and sent of God:" twenty Messiahs, Saviors, and Sons of God, according to history or tradition, have in past times, descended from heaven, and taken upon themselves the form of men, clothing themselves with human flesh, and furnishing incontestable evidence of a divine origin, by various miracles, marvelous works, and superlative virtues; and finally these twenty Jesus Christs (accepting their character of the name) laid the foundation for the salvation of the world, and ascended back to heaven:

-Krishna of Hindostan
-Buddha Sakia of India
-Salivahana of Bermuda
-Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt
-Odin of the Scandinavians
-Crite of Chaldea
-Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia
-Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phoenicia
-Indra of Tibet
-Bali of Afghanistan
-Jao of Nepal
-Wittoba of the Bilingonese
-Thammuz of Syria
-Atys of Phrygia
-Xamolxis of Thrace
-Zoar of the Bonzes
-Adad of Assyria
-Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam
-Alcides of Thebes
-Mikado of the Sintoos
-Beddru of Japan
-Hesus of Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids
-Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls
-Cadmus of Greece
-Hil and Feta of the Mandaites
-Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico
-Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
-Ischy of the Island of Formosa
-Divine Teacher of Plato
-Holy One of Xaca
-Fohi and Tien of China
-Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece
-Ixion and Quirnus of Rome
-Prometheus of Caucasus
-Mohammed, or Mahomet, of Arabia

 

Don't forget Baldur of the scandanavians.

 

or StonerBill of the stoners


no,

thanks hippie thats more of an appropriate answer.

 

NO. MY God is not a vengeful God, and would NOT ask that of his only Son.

 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but since I'm Jewish, he can't be the Messiah for my sins, Y'shua, Jesus the Christ is. He is the Promised One from the Old Covenant, which is the history of my people, and He fulfilled every prophecy made about him (Read Hebrews in the NT).

I don't deny that Messiahship is a recurring theme all throughout history, but the Messiahs of those religions don't apply to me, because I'm not of that religion (although I do agree with many of the philosophies they contain). I believe in three things that most world religions lack: 1) The flawed imperfection of humanity, as individuals and as a whole, 2) The necessity of the perfection of the Creator for reality to be such, and 3) The sacrifice of the perfect Creator to death, so that He can so lead His imperfect people to His perfect dwelling place. That which is imperfect can't dwell in the realm of the perfect... That philosophy makes sense to me.

Perhaps the other cultures of the world have a similar story of personal sacrifice so that the concept of Jesus the Christ's personal sacrifice wouldn't be a foreign concept? Just a thought!

However, please note that the Messiahs you mention are still in their tombs, for the most part. My Messiah actually completed the process and returned to life, whereas the ones you speak of died... and that was the end. You can visit My Messiah's tomb in Israel - It's empty!

By the way, I don't really think that Mohammed was such a great guy. He took a girl that was merely nine years old to be his wife and had sexual relations with her. A nine year old! Besides that, if you think my G-d is bloodthirsty, you should try reading the Koran. At least when my G-d made Himself into a man, He became more compassionate to our situation, and therefore, became more forgiving.

That's just my thoughts though. Not every Christian thinks the same way.

 

You totally missed my point. Maybe you should re-read the post.

 

Maybe you missed my point. If their bodies are still here, they couldn't have ascended into Heaven. You can go visit Buddha's or Mohammed's tomb, and their bodies are still there.

I'm not sure if this is the right website, I can't open it at work, but I'll take the chance that my brain isn't totally spent :
www.dsuonline.org/marapr2001newsletter.pdf

Maybe you should re-read MY post.

 

Sera,

I encourage you to read 2 C.S. Lewis essays if you can get a hold of them; both are featured in his book The Grand Miracle. One is titled The Myth Became Fact, and the other has the same title as the book. Here's a quote from The Myth Became Fact:

"Now as myth transcends thought, Incarnation transcends myth. The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. The old myth of the Dying God, without ceasing to be a myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens--at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from Balder and Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical Person crucified (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle."

As Lewis notes, the story of Jesus can be corroborated through historical investigation, unlike most of the others on your list. It does not require blind faith.

As for Mohammed, Lewis makes the point in The Grand Miracle that he never claimed to be God incarnate and that he would've likely beheaded anyone who even suggested this.

 

Thanks, Huck. I was thinking about sending you a P.M. to let you know about this thread. You're much better at explaining this stuff than me.

 

But the religion itself is based on the supposition that god is god and created everything, which does require blind faith.

 

All I care about is WWSBD..thats what guides me in times of question. All the alleged proof that fundamentalist christians claim, all go back to one collection of fables translated over time, when stoner bill is here now, he doesn't need to return because he never left.

 

How is it blind faith when you have historical evidence?

Christianity isn't the only world religion to feel this way. Are they wrong also?

Or is it just the Christians?

 

Not quite. See http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/astroevid.shtml?main.

 

You have tunnel vision. You only look for evidence of your faith in places that you want to find it. You ignore studying the history of your religion outside of christian sources and the bible. Of course you are going to find all the evidence you want that way. But you are never going to see anything else.

If our entire known history and the sciences agreed with the christian and biblical point of view, then why is it that all your evidences, resources, etc are generally the bible and christian/religious sources?

If you look back on my earlier i pointed out that there have been many, many, many cultures and religions with similar stories to the christian one. It is historical fact.

I wont use the same tunnel vision when studying evidence of my existance. I want to soak up the evidence from everywhere. I want to keep an open mind. I don't deny that there isn't a god, or some devine entity responsible for my existance. And I like to think that there is some sort of afterlife, and that a lifetime here is not all their is. But I am not going to let that get in the way of keeping an open mind when studing and learning about all the evidence of our existance, about how we got here, or what is after all this.

 

sara michele I agree with you completely, and you wrote it all so clearly too...

stonerbill, I would count it as a great sacrifice,

.....and still after many, many years of seeking, I have to conclude, that Jesus was the greatest man to walk the earth!

 

Ugh, there is the tunnel vision again.

See, I could never think that because for Jesus to have been the greatest man on earth I would need to see evidence that his death allows us to go to heaven. Since their is none outside what christianity says (and every religion says of their own savior alike) it isn't evidence to me. Otherwise I would have to believe every religion that says it.

 

Sarah Michele, you are in the tunnel vision.

You said those things, not me.

Of all the men who ever lived on this planet, the only one to make a real effort to give his all, and tell the world that there might just be a chance one day that all men will live like brothers, and the world could live as one. And he spoke to the goodness in you and me.

Of course there is no "Heaven"... an neither can Jesus die "for our sins" and save us.

Think of another man who had such wise words....?

 

I recall answering your question Stoner. As usual you decide to ignore or reject my answer or tell me I am wrong.

Yes, sacraficing your own life for my sins would be meaningless. When Jesus sacraficed His life it was not meaningless, as it paid for my salvation with His blood. His personal sacrafice meant everything, your's would mean nothing in reguards to my sins. As I said before, if you take a bullet for someone, that person will be thankfull, but that doeant mean you just died for his sins. In that case your death would be meaningful to said person. But not to me. Understand now?

 

no i dont because you have not stated why jesus sacrifice was more of a sacrifice than me. hippie did. you posted answers to teh wrong questions, the few answesr you did make.

 

If you look at your original post, and then read down a bit, you will see that I did answer your question. As far as answering more questions after the original one, yup, I have done that too!