dying for our sins

Basicaly you are just convincing yourself that you are happy, its not god making you happy, but you believe so hard that believing in god will make you happy that it does. Simply believing that you are happy would be enough. you know, cut out the middle man.

 

actaullly b4 i knew christ i was extreamley unhappy,i tried so many things to make me happy,i was a mess.i had such an empty feelin inside of me for so long.......then god rescued me,and i know that my life has a purpose.i am not convincing myself i am happy,if i wasnt truely hp there wud b no outward expression of happiness,and anyone thqat knows me will tell you that my happiness is contageous,ppl cannot help bein hp around me!its that kind of happines u can only get from god,and his holy spirit,the only one who is lying to themselves is you,for tryin to convince ureself that u are hp with ure life and that u are truely satisfied and not searching for anything in life

 

But you are doing the same, albeit a more complicated way of doing so. Perhaps you were unhappy because you were scared of the fact that you are in control, that you are ultimately responsible for yourself? So you create this illusion of an all powerful god, taking responsibility away from yourself, and placing it in the hands of someone who knows what is best, and this leads you to be happy, even though deep down you know that you are god and must make choices for yourself, though you cannot possibly know what ultimately would be the best choices?

 

pure and utter bull!

u hav no idea!i am quite capable of makin my own choices,and its my own choice to not live my life with pointless crap and waste my time with things that dnt matter in life that m,ade me realise god has better for me.
no god does not control my life,i am not a puppet,but make my own desisionwether or not to follow his plans for me......but i hav wisdom enough to know,that my stupid desisions,that do not ahv god in mind leave me feelin spiritually distant,and worthless........the plans of god are what is right for my life,that is what makes me happy,and that is wot i choose to follow

 

You belief in god merely shows your reluctance to take responsibility for your own life.

 

no it doesnt!
i take full responsibility fo rmy life,i also take full responsibility for a living jesus!
which is more important ot me than my own existance

 

If you take full responsibility for your life, then a god is not needed.

 

Nope, your sacrifice wouldn't be sufficient.

 

yes but im fully responsible for living for god!
thats wot i mean!
i dont live to please the world or other ppl,
i live to please god,and follow destiny

 

arlia, you seem to be confused to waht 'genuine' happiness is. you can achieve genuine happiness without a genuine reason for happiness. almost all happiness is achieved by that.

you have jsut shown in everyhting youve said that your beleif in god has given you meaning in life, and that has made you happy.

have you not thought that anyone who believes in a god who is like your god would be happy? if anyone trully beleived and followed god, then any sane person would be trully happy with their lives.

not believing in god can get meaningless and depressing. why do you think any religion was started? (caus according to you, all religions other than christianity are one big lie)

waht religion is, is giving a meaning and direction to life. obviosuly, in a life with no meaning (as pure atheists believe) then one will crave meaning, and since meaning is a subjective thing, then they cannot be proven incorrect, and their following will be directly relative to how much the meaning of the religion appeases the individual (in any case of freely chosen religion, and not culturally forced religion).

and anyway, how can you say your fully responsible for living for god when youve outright admitted that your continuing belief in god brings you countless more happiness and meaning to your life.

thats waht drugs do too. or did you only ever take them to abuse them in your old, unbelieving, sinning life, and to genuinely give you a reason to have no meaning in your life?

jsut think, when you meet someone and fall in love with them, it fills you up with happiness and hope. but if your rejected, you feel like utter shit. thats ecause your happiness was based on emotion, which was in tern, based on the affection the persoin gives you. well if that emotion is based on somehting that will never reject you, (assuming you trully believe in everyhting to do with your religion) then the happiness gained from it will never leave.

if you have an emotional bond with a drug, then you will feel happy with the buzz, and when it goes away, you will feel less happy because the reason for the emotion is gone. drugs are of physical nature and so are always limited. human beleifs however can last until someone dies, and so, are essentially unlimited sources of happiness.

and so, if someone wants to be happy with their life, then sure, become a christian. but youd be sacrificing certain things still too.

why do you think raeleaism is catching on? because it allows for so much more, and promises a lot more too. it jsut requires one to throw away previous beliefs, which are often too strong. if enouhg people were born and raised raeleans, then it would outrank christianity by heeeaaaapppsss.

 

anyway i left the topic too much

i still dont see why people praise jesus for dying for our sins. i mean, if hes gonna die, may as well die for your sins if he knows hes gonna be beside god for eternity anyway. its not like he sacrificed much, he couldnt stop them from killing him.

so basically whenever you thank jesus, your thanking him not for going out of his way, and being a really great savior, but rather for not being the most selfish bastard in teh world!

in terms of personal sacrifice, if i killed myself for your sins, then i would habe sacrificed more. you should be more -thankful- to me.

think of it like this, if a rich man donates 1% of his earnings, which happens to be more money than the rest of teh worlds, is he more worthy of thanks than the poor man who gives away everything he has ever had, and humbly goes on to live on the street?

the question is not whether my death would be satisfactory to make up for your sins, but whether my death is worthy of the same praise and thanks and apreciation

i think youve all missed the point there.

 

Bill, Bill, Bill I think you're missing the whole point of Jesus's sacrifice. Jesus sacrificed his life for all of the world's sins. You don't think that's great? Because of Jesus you are free. Jesus could have stopped it, but that wasn't God's plan. As to the rich man giving his earnings and the poor man. Remember when we go to heaven the first will be last and the last will be first. The rich giving his earnings is great, but the poor man is also great.

 

Stonerbill knows what's up.
And as far as the happiness thing, happiness is a state of being, trying to find it through would be no different than trying to find it through buying things or doing drugs... It may work temporarily, but true happiness, well, it just is.

 

I think you are missing the point. What I gather is, StonerBill is saying what kind of sacrifice was jesus's? If jesus truly was god, than I don't see how it was any kind of sacrifice at all realy, as god being all powerful can do anything. Whereas if StonerBill did it, he is gone. He is not god and cannot bring himself back or anything, on his part it actualy is a sacrifice.

 

but he didnt really sacrifice his life.. i mean he was a fugitive, the most hated man on earth... do you think he could have kept from being arrested and killed very long wihtout doing sin?

if jesus genuinely sacrificed his life, then he would have kille dhimself. thats waht sacrificing your life is. you cant assume that he gave himself up to teh law completely (he knew it was going to happen, and let it happen, but he didnt make it happen in teh first place). If he gave himself up because he had done all the good in teh world he could have, then hes onyl be sacrificing a life of praising god (which wouldnt be as much of a sacrifice as my dying would, because hes already experienced more life than me, and if i didnt die for your sins, then id life a full life (assumedly) and so id be sacrificing more life than him). if he could have done more good with his life, wouldnt the better thing to do be to stay alive (wihtout sin that is, caus were assuming he could do that [otherwise he didnt sacrifice his life at all]) and teach his people more, before finally killing himself on an altar, like he does for every other sacrifice he gives to god?

i hope i didnt lose myself in that paragraph... i may have missed some thigns but that question at the start is msot important i think

and anyway, if i follow your logic of both men going to heaven, then you should give me equal thanks and praise as jesus (for his 'sacrifice' ie; you should be thanking god for accepting his sacrifice for your sins) and whenever you thank jesus for sacrificing his life, go 'thank you jesus, and bill, for dying for our sins, though sorry for your wasted sacrifice bill, you dont cut it' the point is to thank anyway, for i would hav sacrifices more of my own life.

 

Yes he could have. He did nothing wrong. That's the beauty of it. Even Pilate wanted to let him free. Jesus knew it was his destiny. It was what God chose. May I suggest reading the Gospels. They will answer all your questions.

 

sorry i edited since u posted, i didnt think ti woudl be so quick

 

It would be called suicide. Not a sacrifice. When you sacrifice you gice up something. Jesus washed away are sins. See the difference. Suicide is what Bill is talking about.

 

Suicide and Sacrifice are different...

 

and im not going to read the whole bible lol because that would involve readin thruogh a huge bunch of songs of praise, and four accounts of the same story. you cant compare the bible to any novel because novels are stories, and the bible is not a narrative. the bible is more simlar to a thesus, a collection of proofs and arguments, and so next time you say 'read the bible', dont refer to it like a book, refer to it like a thesus, and then ask yourself if youd find it easy to jsut go and pickup some random thesus and read it front to end.
i have started reading parts of the bible many times, but teh OT is jsut so godamn boring, and only really has meaning to someone who is subject to believing it.