Don't The Americans Seem To You Sometimes Like

interesting read

 

Excuse me, but what makes you think "Europe" would have grown so much more militarily without the cold war? The Coal and Steel Union between France and Germany, as an example, was an initiative of peace, of no more war in Europe. From the perspective of many European countries, the US and the USSR fucked this idea up completely with their arms race, which inhibited the chances for big parts of this continent to develop economically, democratically and otherwise. Every socialist country that was fighting against the fascists and nazis during WW2 got the bum treatment after the war, and the Italians were even rewarded with a piece of Yugoslavia so that the big harbour by Trieste wouldn't be in 'communist hands'. So don't give me that self-righteous bullshit about "the Might of America" saving us all. If anything, it saved YOU from a united Europe. I'm not even so sure a Europe under communism would have been much worse than a Europe under Mammon. But this is one of those topics that never stays within the boundaries of civilised discussion, so I will not pursue this any further. Good night.

 

i was saying what a french author was saying. So dont get all personal and bitchy with me.

Does the EU not have plans to increase its own military(outside of NATO?). Take a look at your history, it is one of continual armaments and war. What put a stop to that? Two "foreign" superpowers dwarfing you and "occupying" large amounts of Europe. Coincidence? Maybe, doubtful though.

I dont think America will ever have to fear a united europe. vice versa too.

 

I was talking about the end of WW2, not today. The world changes all the time, and there are a huge number of factors contributing to this, not just the military might of a few nations. I only reacted because you always seem to drag up the military, not just in relation to this author. I'd like to apologise for the harsh reply though.

 

they still bitch about the arm race the son of bitch dont realise it was that armed race that keept the russians tank battalions from rolling thru european countrys much like the germans did in 1939.

 

sometimes i think we should had let the fucking russians invade the whole fucking european continent and the russians were well prepare to do just that. After all the germans allready destroy your little lousy army in 1940.

 

I will be the last person to defend the dictatorships in the east, but don't forget that the Soviet Union lost 20 million soldiers+civilians during ww2. When Lenin were ruling, people were happy, and it was peoples desire to put him in a box of glass, so all people could watch him for the future. Lenin emancipated all the peasants from their feudal tyrants. There was pure apartheid and such an enormous poverty, that it's impossible to imagine, while the tsar was at power, and that's why a socialist revolution was needed in the country. (and that's also the reason why they all got mad and killed all the priests and burned down the churches... they simply wanted to get rid of their suppressors which were the ones who kept them and their families in poverty by their false ideologies... they simply wanted to kill the people who caused their childrens starvation and death).
Then we've had the sad 30's, when all Europe got fascist: Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, etc... those sad totalitarian political tendencies were also being reflecting in Russia, for which reason Stalin reached power of the Soviet Union.
And from that very date, the communist dream shipwrecked. There was a lot of violence in Russia while Lenin was at power, but don't forget that the Soviet republic was still new back then - there was still many things to be revolved and to be built up back then. But then we had WW2, which in fact was a consequence of imperialistic national powers logics (just like as WW1 - 'the great war' - was).
The german war-machine killed more than 20 million russians, (try to imagine the number) and just as any other west european fascist, Stalin exploited that desperate situation to maintain his power in Russia. And that's the sad heritage Soviet Union had until its death, in the early 90's.
But that doesn't mean that Marx was wrong - Stalin didn't believe in Marx, and I'm sure Marx would have contemplated Stalin as a mean imperialist (and while Lenin was still alive, he didn't trust Stalin as well. Lenin didn't want Stalin to take the power of the new revolutionary republic).

love and understanding,

) / ) (""") ) * ("" @@ ’_) ("") ("”") (’’)
\/_( *)_( (_ */"" @@ (_) (_(* )_( .. )<,

p.s. - John Francois Revel - I've been writing his name down. I will read him, when time allow me.

 

when you talk about americans always supporting their goverment, this is not true. There is a lot of disagreement among americans and their goverment. I for one do not agree with the current regime(Bush) at all.More people disagree with bush than agree. I and a lot of other people i know disagree with the Iraq war for and example. Disliking american policy is one thing, but disliking the people is another. We have flaws an strong points in our culture just like everybody else. Understanding is key among americans and europeans.

 

JanaX, as an average American I can tell you this, the people in America have this complex that they are so much better than other countries! Well I think that is Bull butter, so I won't curse, we are no better than any other country, just different!

If you you remember the changed the name of everything French to freedom, like french fries to freedom fries. I remind them if not for France we would still be under English rule, no offense! I am sick and tired of hearing how we save Europe in World War II, like no one else helped out!

So I hate to admit, but the current government leaders are A**HOLES!
They don't speak for all of us!

 

I have never really understood the american hatred to France. (And that's not an attack on you, Big Bull, just an association to all this discussion)... The american constitution is based on french revolutionary ideas.

In newer history, both nations have had imperialistic desires - they should oughta love eachother, man! United States took over all the colonial mess France made in Indo-China. Then the US made some more mess there! (but that's another story!)...

Actually it's funny to think about... The youngest nation in this world think it's the wisest nation. Like if they were superior to all moral standards that the nations of the rest of the world cultivated for centuries, if not milleniums. Funny, isn't it? That's where to find their mistakes. A young, brutal nation, impossible to tame.
...That's also what's so fascinating about the americans. They are basically anarchists that can't be tamed. Their politics suck, but if their culture were freed from business-mentality, the american culture would show the way (like it has already done so many times)...


When all comes to all... the american people are ok, but their system is not.
I would like to ask any european on which point we're better as people, as culture than americans, basically..?

Could we have invented jazz & the rhytmic style of music as we all take for granted today?

love and understanding,
-wolf-

 

I really do appreciate your post. I'm happy that some Americans realize that USA is not the only one in this world

 

like you have any idea what the average american thinks. I doubt your average american gives much thought to countries outside of America. We are too busy making ends meet and enjoying life

Yeah, stupid i know. French toast = american and french fries = belgian.

As for being under english rule? C'mon! what a load of bullshit. We won the northern part of the war before the french were even involved. Heck, Lafayette didn't come over because of the french, he came over because of himself(he was a good american). Yes, their navy did play a part in us winning at yorktown. I Believe we have repayed that debt several times over(wwi and wwii to name but a few).

as for WWII? I agree a lot of people helped out. But lets remember that the USSR didnt save anyone, they enslaved them. America pushed for the dangerous landings on the European continent to free them from Nazi rule and to stop the soviet advance. Did we do that a lone? Heck no, the British and Canadians primarily fought tough as nails besides us. Also, both the Brits and USSR were HEAVILY supplied by Americans...i doubt either could have withstood the nazi onslaught without a prodigious effort by the Americans to keep them supplied.

This is probably what americans talk about. Oh yeah, there was a whole other half of WWII too, it is called the pacific theater. Wonder who fought lots there

 

So if USSR was so heavily supplied by the americans as you say, you are actually the ones that the east europeans shall thank for the iron curtain, or what??

 

There were two sects in America after the revolution. The Pro British and the Pro French. Jefferson himself was a franophile...hamilton was an anglophile. The Anglophiles won.

I think America and France share a lot in common, which is probably why we bicker back and forth over things(like brothers). We are sister nations...

Nations arent wise by age. Britain isnt more wise than America because it is older..and china isnt even wiser than britain because its older. Dont be silly.

we're anarchists? Other hipforum members are calling us fascists..and here we are called anarchists? i dont know how we fit the bill as anarchists

edit: a funny asides. Colin powell made it clear to a group of democracys that though we are a young nation..we are the oldest democracy. Maybe age and wisdom do go together

What do you mean by system? I'd never trade the American system of government for any other. God we are lucky

No you couldn't have unless it was developed under the same circumstances. Just as would not have produced your music/dances. Culture develops because of circumstance. Unless they are replicated, i highly doubt they'd be developed the same.

 

huh? why would that be our fault? And the iron curtain wasnt until after the war anyways...

 

So now you're trying to tell me that effects has nothing to do with causes? This is getting more and more weird...

 

haha, that was so stupid

You are seriously big and you were so far away that Germany had left you alone, that why you were able to help... Many people in my family were freedom fighters, don't for a second think that you were the heroes of that war, you were just lucky...

The freedom fighters were the heroes, they fought, with no military background and shitty weapons, against an invading power...

 

uh the americans and their international banking buddies ...armed hitler , then stalin ....and caused the war in europe just cause they had money troubles ,,,,

 

edit:
i dont get what you're trying to say? We didnt want the iron curtain. Yes, we helped the USSR out during the war(and ended it shortly after) with jeeps and planes and other things to keep them in the war against hitler. So, the iron curtain is our fault because we didnt help hitler topple the USSR? Remember, the US fought for 45+ years after the war to bring an end to the USSR.

 

Call it luck, call it whatever you want. That doesn't change the facts.

There were a lot of heroes in WWII. You dont want me to demean your family, you sure as hell better not demean mine that risked their lives to help you folks out.