Does God Exist?

And what made the child put his hand on the stove. Curiosity and the expectation that maybe there is something interesting there. It is the venture of hypothesis.

 

thedope:

Denial.

 

Being told not to. Human Nature.

 

Being told not to is instruction, a behavior, not a nature. Human nature is curious.

 

Not always true. You tell someone they can't talk about that anymore and it will be all they talk about. Sometimes, it's being denied the right to do something. You ever read about Eve in the garden of Eden?

 

Makes you curious what is being denied or curious to know why they are the boss creating resentment.

 

The appropriate use of denial is in saying what is the same and what is different.
This is the same and that is different and not the same.

 

Don't understand you, thedope, are you at imagination or perception? Understanding is the shared form of knowledge.

 

Who knows? Haven't seen one yet myself

 

At perception.
As opposed to self denial.

 

I think you draw too sharp a distinction between fact and belief. Kant made us aware centuries ago that we are prisoners of perception, and can only know of the world "out there" by inference--i.e., belief. Do you believe in evolution? It's a theory supported by a mass of evidence from a variety of scientific sources. But it's only one Cambrian rabbit away from being discredited (that's what makes it scientific). So far, no rabbits. Science has shifted paradigms profoundly in little over a century. General relativity and quantum theory have led to a revolutionary transformation in the way we view physical reality. And now we have leading scientists believing in M theory and multiple universes without a shred of empirical evidence. Do we dismiss them for "believing in something which does not exist".

Why do you think that's true? Where did you get that information? You must have heard about them somewhere and decided to believe what you heard. In that case, I think it might have been a questionable decision, because most of the comparisons between Jesus and Horus can be traced to sources like the Zeitgeist film and S. Acarya (D. Mufdock) to Gerald Massey in 1875, poet and amateur Egyptologist with a lively imagination writing when Egyptology was in its infancy. Egyptologists today don't take him seriously, but propagandists keep his word alive in film and on the blogosphere. I know you don't like the words "belief" and "faith", but when you put your trust in information and make it part of your "knowledge base", what else would it be?

I find that hard to believe. Many people can probably make a living regardless of their beliefs, but in my experience their minds are still cluttered with all sorts of beliefs, some of them very strange or ignorant. These people may make good wages, but they can be dangerous if they vote. Even primitive hunter gatherers had beliefs about the spirit world and the sacred. To the best of our knowledge, no human society has been without them. What good are they? Possibly to give comfort, hope and a sense of meaning--things that some people seem to crave more than others. The belief that these things aren't important is also a belief.

 

Sounds as if Sam is speaking from a position derived from an abysmal lack of knowledge rather than an abundance of it.
Very juvenile and elementary understanding of the concepts concerning reality thedope brought forth.

Sam fails to realize that faith is acting on a belief or conviction concerning an event yet to occur or outside of our immediate perception.
Sam practices faith every time he hits the brakes at a red light, same as all the rest of us.

 

The freely varying imagination can be the denial of being uncreative and demanding the exact number for quantity; true you are not denying reality; you are building the negative judgement upon It. Not remembering is creative; in fact one is improving oneself against the world-reality.

At perception the positive judgement determines detachment and focus. Really one should learn the opposition that imagination fools you into having (yes, having now) for extension of qualitative self-deceiving. :beatnik:

 

Not remembering is forgetful, selective forgetting is creative.

 

sounds to me like the dope is doing that, whatever this sam is or isn't.

whether or not one or more gods exist, nothing anything human thinks they know, believes or acts upon, can ever have jack to do with it.

 

Who is doing what? I have said god is that which we invoke and that our inherent devotion to our own good is essential to everyone's efforts. I have also stated that these statements come from self observation. You are saying whether god exists or not there must be rules for god having nothing to do with human beings. Where do you get that information? You probably thought that was a good idea or wise speak at one point in your life. It seems a safe thing to say by saying it doesn't matter whether god exists or not because we can never have anything meaningful to say about it. Let's you off the hook. It is not keeping up with this conversation however not that you shouldn't be included. Be specific as to those statements of mine qualifying as those you describe, and we can improve on your vague impressionistic view of , "sounds like."

 

Their beliefs turn them into irresponsible children who WANT to be good, but can't attain the status of their God. It excuses behavior and justifies it for "falling short" in the eyes of their God.

The Christian reconstruction movement which resurfaced in the 1970's along with the Dominionists, justifies hatred and not helping the poor so the rich can get richer. Even the churches now steal money from the poor to make their churches richer.

 

There's nothing about belief which projects to the future. It's current. You have a belief in something. If you want to project it to the future, that's an extension of YOUR belief and doesn't change the fact it is NOT a fact. Just enhances it.

I don't practice faith every time I hit my brakes. I have a great mechanic.

As to my knowledge, I'm smart enough to know that I am responsible for my actions and don't go around blaming it on a fallen angel who makes me do things. That's the excuses of children.

 

"Invoke"? You assume he appears. There is not god, but what the faith and beliefs people have created have created him/her.

I think the comment concerned the fact that there has never been a god presenting itself to humans therefore it doesn't exist. And the human race has gotten along just fine without him. As a matter of fact, the only time humans slip into the dark ages is when those who have the belief in a god rear their heads for power.

 

This is a political statement. There is no doubt perversion in the church as even the U.N. says so but whether human institutions exist is not the question. You call persons irresponsible because belief makes them that way and that is like saying the devil makes them do it. The reason people do whacked out things due to belief is the practical quality of the lesson that they believe in. This vacancy in understanding in apprehending a good lesson is demonstrated dramatically in the story of pontius pilate and jesus before the rabble at jesus' sentencing. They throw away the harmlessness that would protect them for their belief in guilt. The hypocritical action comes from the self contradictory precepts which then become dogma and the perpetual ritual reenactment of the essential dilemma. It becomes a restatement of the problem that existed before not the solution.
This is the thing you do here in describing energetic phenomena in the terms you are using. You say neither what is the same or what is different
not comprehending any. The fundamentally self contradictory lesson is the lesson of sin which gives the picture that we are an essentially illegitimate expression of reality. No doubt this is torture to the mind.