Do you support Palestine or Israel?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jekyll_PHD, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I read a Fox article that if I had to guess was distancing media norms from anything toward allowing a normal Islam in America.

    The sad thing is that when you bash Iran people learn it's normal to reject Muslims or to be xenophobic about middle eastern countries.

    There seem to be a lot of comments that condemn 'proxies' without explaining what that means, or condemning the sale of arms without discussing which rules were violated or what was unacceptable about that.

    When we allow the media to make lots of blanket statements about Iran, we're allowing them to demonize Islam; something that I have learned to trust and revere.

    I am not trying to be an apologist for Iran. But what I want to say is that if you aren't explaining this, it behaves as a divisive, thoughtless, and a destructive heatwave that weighs down an already misunderstood and marginalized religious group of people, people who worship faithfully and live their lives according to their beliefs without hurting anyone or wishing anyone ill will.

    If Iran is training terrorists or being indiscriminate about how their money is used, that is the story; not something vague and highly critical that doesn't explain what they did wrong. Doing that makes us the enemy of that entire part of the world until someone invites us to discuss oil or something.

    What I would say is this: If you tell us they're our enemy, make it clear that you aren't demonizing them for their beliefs. Tell us why they're our enemy in finite and definite terms that refer to facts, treaties, laws, and accord. If not, you are just trolling and it's destructive and has no place in legitimate American journalism.

    In terms of Israel and Palestine, the answer for me is Palestine.

    When there is no more human tragedy levied against Palestinians, I will feel good about Israel. The trend when this happens though is to sweep things under the carpet. We need Israel to be accountable to its people, some of whom are Palestinians.

    Also, in my life there is no room for antisemitism. I have to be really clear about that. That plays no role in my calculus on this. Many close friends and exemplary good families in my life were Jewish. There is nothing antisemitic in my heart when I cry for justice for honest and deserving and normal, and righteous, deserving Palestinians.

    To be very clear, I don't want their lives to be destroyed by bulldozed homes and businesses for any reason. To me that is barbaric and not in congruence with the modern world or expectations for treatment of a country's citizens. If there were wrongdoings, this does not seem in accordance with modern ramifications no matter what the alleged wrong. The court does not adjourn and then decide to raze a property in modern times.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2023
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  2. Piobaire

    Piobaire Village Idiot

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    "It is time to choose. Not between Muslims and Jews, but between humanism and horror."
    Chems-Eddine Hafiz; rector of the Grande Mosque of Paris.
     
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  3. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    Any religious beliefs is a personal idea that people willing to achieve a better life. But, if any religious ideology becomes a weapon in the hands of any politician or gaverments, it will be dangerous for any society. That's why, there has been war in Middle East more than 3000 years, as it happens now between Isreail and Hamas.
     
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  4. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  5. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

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    The whole Israel should temper themselves is ridiculous WHY THE FUCK is no one calling to release the hostages?
     
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  6. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    Just look at the social situation in Iran, Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, and Saudi Arabia , all of the gaverments of these countries fallow the Islamic idealogy, and Judaism, no matter they are rich like Saudi Arabia and Iran or poor like Afghanistan, the result for their peoples are the same. It means there are no human rights, no freedom for people and mass media and many other restrictions. The internal social freedom in Isreal is is much better than the other countries, but for foring policy are the same. All these gaverments don't say any thing right to their peoples, just they like to cheat their nations.
     
  7. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    Yes, you are right, there is no talking about Israeli hostages, but it doesn't mean their lives do not matter for the people who follow the critical situation in Gaze.
    There are hundreds of babies, kids, young, and old patients many of them are in critical condition. These innocent sick people along with hundreds of people as refugees are real hostages to keep in one or two remaining hospitals. The 240 Israelis who may be kept under the hospitals are hostage by Hamas as well as the Israeli army which does not like to ceasefire to give them a chance to be free. So, the Israeli hostage is a small number compared with thousands of Palestinians who suffer from losing their loved ones and missed their homes to be removed under the crossfire to the south of Gaze.
    These people are humans no matter if they are Israeli, Palestinian, Afghan, Ukraliani, black, or white all are from the same source, but they just fall apart or are separated politically by the criminal governments, otherwise, they love each other and like to live together peacefully.
     
  8. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Are Palestinians being forgotten in this? Every report I read seems to exaggerate Israel and Gaza, while barely mentioning Palestine, Islam, Judaism, or far right-wing elements in leadership.

    I always look for transparency and accountability. And everyone probably remembers me complaining and hoping for 'thoughtful-brand journalism'.

    Here I am wishing again for objectivity despite the obvious need for more chaos...
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2023
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  9. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    People are always the main loser in any political conflict and war. More than 800 000 people were genocide In Rwanda in 1994, more than 5000 people were killed by Sadam Housain chemical attack during the Iraq - Iran war, more tha hundreds of thousand people were killed under the wison of the United nation in Bosnia, and so many other genocide happened and will be happened again and again, and hall of them will be forgotten. What's going on with Palestinian and Israeli? It will be forgotten again and again.
     
  10. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    Both sides are to blame.

    Both hate each other enough to enshrine it in their constitutions.

    You have the haves vs. the have nots. Time after time history repeats itself.

    Horrror and chaos are the result no matter which way the wind blows in this situation.
     
  11. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    The present hate feeling among the Israeli and Palestinian is responsible of Israel gaverment and Hamas. The people are not guilty, they are innecens and are puppet in their gaverments hands.
     
  12. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    Whatever Hamas and Israel say are lie, the only doctors and patients who are watching how the babies are dieing because the lack of medicine ,electricity, and more other necessary equipment in the Al Shafa hospital tell the truth.
     
  13. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    According to Netanyahu there were no hostages in Al Shafa hospital, but how paid the prices of his army miss calculation? Obviously the people in hospital and resident around.
     
  14. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  16. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    It is a surprise for me to see the people who are worried about the peace in the Middle East just judge the current conflict between Israel and Hamas, and are looking to find out who is right or who is wrong. There have been wars for more than 3000 years in the Middle East that never ever will come to an end because of the following facts:


    1- The Middle East is a holy land for at least 3 major religions, Christianity, Jowdeism, and Islam. So most of the followers of each one have tried to extend their religious ideology and consequently their states.


    2- Most of the governments during the centuries have tried to take advantage of the religious beliefs of the people to extend their territories by war.


    3- During the last century, in addition to the rulers and politicians, the owners of military industries are another factor in creating wars in many parts of the world, because they sell weapons to warring countries for millions of dollars with each war. For example, after the establishment of Israel in Palestine, billions of dollars of weapons have been sold to Arabs and non-Arab countries including Israel by American, Russian, and European companies.


    4- Therefore, the combination of any religious and political ideology is a factor in the development of regional wars such as the one between Israel and the Palestinians in the last century, and the main losers are the Palestinians and the Israelis, not the owners of power and wealth.


    5- Both Hamas and the Israeli government and those countries who support the two sides, are fighting for their own benefits, not for the people.


    6-The governments of Israel have tried to minimize anti-Semitic activities and beliefs in the world, during the last 70 years. But, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, carried out another holocaust in Gaza during the last month, causing anti-Semitic feelings among at least more than 2.5 million Palestinian population of Gaza next to his door. So, he just fights for himself to be in power not for the safety of the Israeli people!!


    7- I believe, we should condemn both sides and support the United Nations to establish the two states as soon as possible otherwise the domino of war will go on again and again.

    We are human from the same source no matter black or white, Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, we love the children no matter if they are yours or mine. It is our duty as a human just to fight for human rights against any government and political party that like to be in power by sacrificing the people. Don't forget we are the people, if we do not support any political party or government they have no power to kill our loved ones, and our innocent children.
     
  17. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  18. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Displaced Palestinians, out of fuel, leave by donkey cart to try to return to their homes during a short-term cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war, passing by a house destroyed in an earlier Israeli airstrike, in Khan Younis, southern Gaza Strip.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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    Fortunately, 44 days after the start of the war, 14 of the hostages of some of my friends' families in Israel were released to join their families very soon.

    I hope that the temporary ceasefire will continue until the rest of the hostages on both sides, especially the women and children are freed.

    Unfortunately, many Palestinians who are kept in Israeli prisons are children aged 13-14 years and have been arrested and imprisoned without trial for participating in street protests. It is hoped that these children will be released as soon as possible too.
     
  20. PGA

    PGA Senior Member

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