do I have spirits?

I think it helps to accept it as part of who we are, because it makes us more realistic, and I think, more forgiving of our weaknesses. But I also think medications are not out of the question, if the going gets too rough.

I have been in exactly this place, more than once--acid not required. I would say that it WAS real--and that it doesn't NEED to continue being reality. And still I know how hard it is to shake it when it has a grip on you. But the universe can be transformed in an instant, and it can happen even in the pits of hell. So I would have to say: It is NEVER irrevocable.

 

Yeah, Stuart Homeroff and Roger Penrose have a lot to say about this. Their theory of quantum consciousness has quantum effects occur right inside our neurons, and they feel this explains consciousness. Personally, I think this is a better theory of free-will than consciousness overall, but what do I know.

That's the doorway, I guess - from a mechanical universe to one in which psychic phenomena is possible. There's always a doorway.

That's a very good point.

I see you notice the little things. To me, that's a sign of grace.

So tell us about this anger and resentment towards your spirit guides. I'm assuming we're all open and unreserved here, so I take it's no bother for me to ask this. What did they do that grinds at you so?

Yeah, I went for medication once. The doctor said he wouldn't perscribe it 'cause he thinks my depression is partly due to the drugs I use and partly because of certain past experiences that can be healed with normal psychotherapy. Now, maybe several years ago, I might have taken his words to heart, but lately I've been harboring a disdain for psychotherapists. I don't trust them 100%. I always see $$$ in their eyes when they recommend psychotherapy - and there's never enough. There's never a point when you're officially "cured" - you always need more. I know when the depression started. It started when my peers began bullying me in grade 6 - 8 years before I touched a single drug - including alcohol or cigarettes. Yeah, I've faced all my childhood traumas - over and over and over again - to the point where it makes me sick. If it's a question of my paranoia and fear, the culprit there, I'll readily admit, is squarely the drugs. But I really feel that I've gotten over the fear, and I now feel ready to explore all there is to experience in the psychedelic mind-space - I'm even eager. I've invested too much of my spiritual development into these experiences (hence my interest in shamanism) that it's almost become a religion for me. To me, when someone tells me I can't experiment with drugs, it's like telling a Christian he/she can't go to church or a scientist he/she's not allowed to conduct experiments. So that makes abstaining from drugs not an option either. In hindsight, I'm glad I was rejected for medication. I feel as though I was meant to endure some hardships because the spirits (if I have them) knew I had the potential to convert hardship into spiritual growth and want me to continue doing so. I just have to stop whining about it.

Yeah, that's what I believe now. The idea that a sentence to hell can be irrevocable just seems silly to me now. It doesn't make sense. The essential nature of any existence, of any reality, is to go through flux. Things MUST change for an existence to continue. So nothing can be permanent.

This is what I had to learn in order to get myself out of that hellish mind-state. The way I interpret it now is that I was being thrown up against the walls of my reality and being forced to recognize that it wasn't going to stop there. I was going to continue to be pushed until I broke through the walls of my reality. In other words, I had to realize the solution to my predicament - a predicament in which I was trapped in a reality in which doom and despair were inevitable - was to transcend that reality - something unthinkable to me up until that point in my life. I mean, it comes from a western upbringing. We are brought up to think of reality as this static unchanging realm, our relation to it being either that we are aware of it or oblivious and delusional. The latter is taken as simply wrong, and therefore ineffectual towards changing reality. What I had to learn was that we each build our own reality based on how we perceive things and what we believe. I had to learn (or at least convince myself) that, in manner of speaking, we're always living in fantasy - even the scientists and the rationalists - but that some of our fantasies are more consistent and regulated, and most are in control of us rather than visa-versa. If I was irrevocably fucked, it was because I had made myself so by way of my beliefs, perceptions, and drug use, and by the same means I could "unfuck" myself.

 

My psychic friends trained me to be acutely aware of the most subtle body language, movements, and facial expressions. They achieved this by means of a form of protracted social torture, which I won't describe just now...but maybe sometime, maybe even soon.

Gib, have you ever broken up with a girlfriend? Ever been through a divorce? I'm looking for something in your experience to compare my experience to.

Good luck with that--I haven't been able to stop whining so far. LOL Yeah, I was just born weird and moody. Certainly marijuana exacerbated this, but actually most of my acid trips were pretty good, and the time I tried peyote was a major pivotal experience in my life.

That's it, all righty.

I like the way you say this--the ideas are the same as what I've pretty much known for years, but you state it very well. Always living in a fantasy--YES!!! As the Hindus say, the world is maya--illusion.

 

Uh... yeah, in highschool... but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that's not the caliber of relationship you're talking about.

God, I'd love to try peyote. You know, for a shaman-wanna-be, there's so much I haven't tried. It's where I live and who I live with that's the problem.

Sorry, don't got much to say in this post, but I do have a PM I want to send you. Will do that now.

 

I think that's probably a good assumption. Well a high school breakup is good enough to start with.

How close were you to that girlfriend? Did it hurt to break up? Were you friends afterward? Did you still talk much?

Did she ever get you kicked out of your school for a concocted offense?

Yeah well, peyote isn't so easy to come by. The way I happened on it was that a friend of mine made an expedition to the Southwest US, where peyote grows wild, and he harvested a bunch of it. I don't know how he found it or how he harvested it without notice. But he came back to California with a big bag, and he dried it out in a convection oven. Then he left the bag of peyote buttons in the back of a cupboard in the mountain cabin I was renting with another friend, and he said that under no circumstances was anybody to eat any of the peyote. So naturally we helped ourselves.

In the US, penalties for having a peyote button in your hand or in your pocket or your attache case can be many years in prison--unless you happen to be a bona fide member of a tribal religion, preferably full-blooded Native American--and even those folks have been known to get major hassling for possession.

However I remember seeing online stores in the UK that sell the plants. They grow very slowly, and each plant is only good for one button. If your roommates are extremely naive, you might be able to get away with a little cactus garden in your kitchen window...

Then of course, shaman-wise, there's datura--very dangerous stuff, but it used to grow wild in my back yard in California when I was a kid, before I knew what it was.

I would think that the best thing for a shaman wannabe would be a shaman mentor, especially if you're going to get into some serious horticulture. I'm afraid I couldn't tell you how to find one of those--hang around with the Native Americans, maybe?

 

How close was I? I wasn't that close with either of them (comparitively), which is why it wasn't that high calliber.

Did it hurt? I felt intense guilt with the first one, but also a sense of relief because I was starting to feel trapped. I felt depressed after the second one because I really believed we had something. She turned out to be a cheater and a liar - not just to me but to everyone else behind my back (she spread all sorts of false rumors about me). The pain didn't last that long and soon I realize what I was really in love with - not her but my new found popularity. I had become the center of attention - a new experience for me - and loved by everyone within that social circle. It was that which I was mistaking for "true love" - the popularity stayed even though the relationship ended, which kept my spirits up even after we broke up - it was that which made me realize it wasn't "true love". But even the popularity didn't last (it seemed to hinge on the fact that I was in that relationship) and that's when my spiritual path took the deepest plunge ever.

Did I talk to them afterwards? I didn't talk much with the first one afterwards (in fact, I cut off all communication whatsoever the moment it ended - I couldn't bear the guilt). I kept in touch with the second one for a while, but that just withered away.

Nope, can't say either did. Is that what forced you out of your job and to move 1200 miles away?

Well, it's supposed to be legal to own (but not consume or extract) in Canada, but the one time I tried to purchase it from a UK vendor, they rejected my purchase on legal grounds - go figure.

I've heard bad things about datura - the devil's weed. I might be willing to try it at a low dose, but I think I'd definitely want a sitter there and I wouldn't want to push the dose by that much. I've heard scary things about it.

Yeah, I've thought of that from time to time, but I wonder how insistent they would be that I take on their religious beliefs or practices. That might just be my own prejudice though. I must confess that if I do practice shamanism in any which way or form, it wouldn't be the conventional way - I don't even know if I believe in any of that stuff - particularly curing disease by magic and/or talking to spirits - my way has always been learning about the nature of the human mind, digging deep within myself (while stoned of course), and applying the lesson's learnt to others in a psychotherapeutic way - very western. I can't really say that I've even been able to officially help anyone - well, maybe I have but it's only been by meeting people on forums and offering a sympathetic ear to those who seem to have genuine problems - makes me feel useful. Other than that, I'd call myself an explorer - in that sense, my practice is more like that of a scientist rather than a doctor.

I doubt I'll ever grow my own. It's not for lack of want or ability - it's for lack of the wife's aprooval of all things. She and I don't see eye-to-eye on the whole drug issue, if you can believe it. She's adamently against it - even the legal ones - but she tolerates the fact that I do it.

 

This makes comparison more difficult. Emily was in my mind continually--and she still is. She was and is my constant companion. And has always kept me at least partly aware of her presence at all times. Frequently she'll give me an intense buzzing/tingling sensation in my groin area to let me know she's with me, other times she'll warm my stomach. She'll shoot me some laughter sometimes when I think something funny, or make a comment about things in my mind. She's been doing this with me for over five years now.

Ah, now this is a bit more like what I experienced. Emily started out acknowledging our mental communication out loud. I mentally asked her to be more expressive of her love, and so she started a routine where, after having a talk at break time, as she opened the door to go back into her building, she would pause, turn, and look at me with a warm, lingering smile before leaving. One time I saw her standing in line in the nearby drug store, so on a whim I went in to stand with her, and in a low voice she told me that her first impulse when I walked up to her was to hold my hand. She would give me lots of outward signs of our mental relationship. Then she started getting mean. She would say things like, "we have no relationship," and "I don't believe in telepathy," and (this one really hurt) "it's all about your dick, isn't it?" She would say in my mind that she liked my appearance, and then out loud she would tell other women, in my presence, that I was not her type. She would mentally say she would meet me outside at break time, and then not show up. She would act like she was really happy with me in my mind, and then when I'd see her in person she'd be acting like she was pissed at me about something.

I'll admit that I liked being seen with Emily--but much more than that I loved just seeing her. And I felt we had a lot in common--a strong interest in the mind and spirit, love of art, music, and writing. Once in an e-mail she showed me a computer picture she had made, and she described her mood when she made it. I found her words so poetic that I rearranged them into more of a poetic form and sent them back to her, and she said this made her day. That was before she got mean, of course... And I loved her fashion sense--original and even a bit quirky, yet tasteful and artistic.

But at least you've shown me that you understand being given something you cherished, and then losing it. This is very much like what I experienced with Emily, though the reasons differ.

As I said, Emily has been my constant mental companion for over five years--but I can't talk to her in the material world. Well, she's never told me to never call her, and I have her phone number...but as I mentioned in a PM once, the way she treated me the last time I phoned her proved to me that there's no point trying that again.

That's it. I don't know if I want to go into detail right now, but she basically misconstrued something I wrote in innocence (and stupidity, I admit) and complained to her manager. I was a contractual worker, and it was easy to get rid of me--I had gotten numerous clues that they didn't like paying my high salary at the time anyway, so this made a good excuse to trim the budget...among other things...

It's all much more complicated than this, of course. It really requires a book to explain all the nuances. Lots of times I thank her for getting me out of that job and out of that state--I'm much happier where I am now. I just hate the way she has treated me.

More on this later--gotta run just now.

 

Well, I guess I'll respond to your last post. I was just waiting 'cause it seemed like you had another post coming (hope everything's all right).

Did she ever explain to you why she did these things?

 

I got distracted.

When I tried to get serious explanations, she either fucked with my mind or ignored me. Then one day I had an e-mail conversation with her where I asked her, "Are you genuinely trying to help me?" She answered, "Yes." So I asked, "Are you trying to get me to alter my state of awareness?" She replied, "Yes, but you're not paying close enough attention."

So I tried paying closer attention. And I started to see a pattern. Whenever I was in my usual serious mood, trying to get explanations from her, she would fuck with my mind or ignore me. But sometimes something in me would click, and I would suddenly be in a state of higher energy where everything seemed funny, and I no longer needed explanations. As soon as I made this switch in my awareness, I would suddenly find an e-mail from her, even if she had been ignoring me for days. She would be playful and fun with me, as I would be with her. Often she would be sarcastic, such as asking me if I still needed an explanation - and of course, I didn't.

When the agency fired me, my manager escorted me into the director's office. There were two police officers there. They shut the door, and the director read me the official statement of my sacking. I just stood there listening, and thinking, "My God, my worst fears have come to pass, and I'm just going to stand here meeting the police officers' eyes, and knowing they really don't have a clue about the reality behind this situation." And Emily was laughing with me in my mind. As we paraded out of the director's office, I saw somebody I knew watching in perplexity, and I told him, "I love a parade."

Eventually it became not so fun. Eventually I started sweating blood. I started the emotional roller coaster. But this is a very long story also.

So the short answer is: No. She never gave me an explanation. But when I'm in my energized state of awareness, I don't need an expanation. Right now I'm flying moderately high, and I can fly through these flames unscathed. Other times when I'm not so strong, I feel burned by the fires of hell when I think of what I went through.

Obviously I'm not quite "there" yet.

And I keep thinking of more things I really should tell you about all this, but there's so much to it...I really need to write that book...

I'll get to the stuff I said I would get to in my previous post...

 

Well, you keep working on that book. I'm eager to read it.

I'm not familiar at all with these switches between states of awareness - serious vs. comical - so I think that's where my understanding of your situation stops (I guess I'll have to read the book). I would like to ask about the nature of those states though. I've thought a lot about the possibility that the human brain can function in a variety of different long-term states and certain life-altering events or experiences can act as the trigger to switch the brain from one state to another (PTSD comes to mind). But from the sounds of it, you were *sometimes* able to control it at will. Can you still do this?

 

Obviously there's more to the moods than just "serious" vs "comical," but those are good enough labels for them, I suppose. In the serious mood, I tend to be very analytical, looking for rational, methodical ways of proceeding, and looking for explanations. In the comical mood, I'm more just being, I'm more intuitive - understanding without explanations - I have more energy. In the comical mood, Emily could say things to me that would have hurt my feelings in the serious mood, and I'll just laugh them off and even make a snappy comeback. I'm more loving in the comic mood, as opposed to being colder in the serious mood.

I also forgot to mention that after I started "paying more attention," in my mind Emily would keep saying over and over to me, "Have fun," and "Make me fun," and "Be fun." By "make me fun" I assumed she wanted me to see her in a fun light instead of taking her seriously.

I can sometimes control it. Sometimes it's like a switch just going on in my mind - it can happen very suddenly. I can make the switch on purpose sometimes, if I make an effort. However sometimes when I'm in a particularly crappy mood, I just damn well don't WANT to be happy. LOL Especially with Emily - when I'm in that mood, I figure she deserves my crappy mood.

This whole phenomenon seems a bit like some Zen stories I've read, such as this one, for example (I don't remember the guy's actual name, so I'm going to call him "Ling Chu"):

Ling Chu went to the marketplace to buy meat. He asked the butcher which cut of meat was the best. The butcher replied, "ALL of my cuts are the best." At this, Ling Chu was enlightened.
​

And Ling Chu (or whatever his actual name was) went on to become a renowned Zen master. It might be worth noting however that this "sudden" enlightenment was preceded by much hard experience - his father had died when he was young, and he had taken on his father's responsibilities to the family at a young age.

Before Emily started on my lessons, I wrote her a long e-mail where I related a Zen story and said I couldn't be like the Zen master in the story. She wrote a long reply, telling me basically that I had risen a level already, and that I was ready for the next level. A few weeks later we were outside talking, and I told her I wanted to be able to do what she did - to be one with everything, to be able to be in someone else's mind the way she was. She blew out her cigarette smoke and replied in complete seriousness, "We'll see what we can do."

 

That's amazing! That would be wonderful to be able to pull myself out of bad moods and view the world with such a light comical attitude. I'm not assuming its easy for you, but I've never experienced being able to turn it on like a light switch.

Yeah, the not-wanting-to-be-happy thing is a tricky one to get around. Our negative emotions are not built to self-eradicate. Although this may be what WE want, the emotions themselves are driven to satisfy other ends such as punching someone in the face (anger) or profusely apologizing (guilt) or to run away (fear) or to sit and sulk in one's own self-loathing (depression). It's ironic that something so simple and so effective at eliminating the emotion (such as positive thinking or switching to the "comical" mind-state) can be so unwanted. It's almost like our emotions are telling us "No! I don't want to feel better! I want to punch this guy in the nose!" not realizing that to be eliminated would give that same sense of satisfaction as punching some guy in the nose.

 

Yeah, it WOULD be wonderful if I could find the motivation to do it consistently when I'm in the pits of hell--but I rarely do. Sometimes I think maybe I'm just meant to experience being in hell. Who knows? When I try to figure out reasons for things, I just end up going in circles...maybe the reasons for things are the things themselves--the experience in and of itself.

Now to get back to something I said a couple weeks ago I would address...the fact that your wife is not approving of some of your activities. Yes, I have experienced this big time. In spite of the fact that my wife was completely aware of and even participating in the periphery of my psychic delvings before we were married, AFTER we were married her insecurities of a fundamentalist Christian type manifested in a desire to control my activities. In other words, once she had me, she wanted me to become a different person. I could say much more about this, but I might have a tendency to get nasty, which would not be productive. But it isn't just her--it's obvious the universe has designed my life so as to keep me in a sort of prison for some period of time. Every time I try to break out, to be my real, authentic self, to pursue my deepest longings and self-actualize, somebody comes down hard on me--sometimes more than one person--sometimes it seems like a torch-bearing, pitchfork-carrying, angrily yelling mob congregates on me to make me stop, and to force me to go back to being a round peg in a square hole forever. I know it doesn't need to be this way, because I see people doing the things I want to do and getting little or no resistance.

How come? All I can do is look at the effects this has had on me, and try to see some good from it. One thing is, it gets me to see more clearly what's important enough to me that I'll keep trying to do it even if the hounds of hell knock me down and try to drag me back. Another thing is, it helps me analyze and articulate to myself why people's behavior and statements toward me are unreasonable and hypocritical--in other words, it helps me clarify some social and pyschological dynamics. And then there's the courage factor--things I would never have dreamed of being able to handle are now not such big deals.

This discussion might seem to be going astray from your thread's topic, but not really--it's all within the scope of how the spirits shape us and direct us.

 

Yeah, that's sort of what I was getting at with my description of higher and lower selves - that in the end, it's all right to go through the motions, to go through the experiences. But as humans, we are also meant to strive against pain and suffering, and so at the same time, it's all right to reject such experiences in the hopes that you can make something better out of it.

I've made a promise to myself - that whenever I'm in one of my deeply depressive moods that last for days, sometimes weeks, I have to try at least once a day to put a serious effort into bringing myself out of it (with self-talk, meditation, writing, etc.) The effort doesn't have to go on and on for hours on end, but just a few minutes. If it doesn't work, I let myself wallow in my own pitty - at least for a while.

Why is it always AFTER the marriage bond has been sealed? That makes no sense to me.

This could be because of the people you hang around with. A lot of the time, we get sucked into social groups because we're more concerned with pleasing them than pleasing ourselves (I'm like this). If we were more concerned with pleasing ourselves - that is, seeking out the things WE want in our lives - we would find the kinds of people who match our own lifestyles. I think it all comes down to self-esteme - believing our desires and wants are worth working towards, even fighting for.

My brother-in-law has much the same problems as what you're describing. His wife comes down on him HARD. What I tell him that he's got to do is recognize his own rights and hold that up as if it were a sacred principle. Everyone has the right to pursue their dreams, to seek out the kind of lifestyle that's right for them, to meet the kinds of people they like and engage in the kinds of activities they enjoy (you don't want to do anything illegal, but even there I see some grey area - I mean, there is a difference between what's morally or naturally right and what's legally right - you just gotta be smart about it). So I tell him to recognize what's well within his rights and just pursue that no matter what the wife, or anybody else, says. The rest is a matter of how tough you are - that is, how much abuse you're willing to put up with so long as you can still pursuing your dreams. Because really, if the wife or anybody else has a problem with you doing what's perfectly OK for you to do, the problem is with them, not you. You don't even have to give it a second thought.

I always caution my brother-in-law, however: it's not about fighting her, it's about knowing your rights. That's why you've got to hold onto that. The point is to boost your self-esteme, not get bogged down in anger and resentment.

That sounds like you get the main gist of what I said above. One thing I'd recommend is not to worry too much about analyzing other people's statement for their unreasonableness. That's why recognizing your own rights are so important to just latch onto. It means you shouldn't even have to listen to other people's reasons and arguments. If you really have those rights, and you should take it as self-evident that you do, then it shouldn't matter WHAT they say - those rights are sacrosanct.

When it comes to the drug issue between me and my wife, this perspective has not only helped me to feel secure in pursuing what I believe to be within my rights (i.e. pursuing my spiritual practice of exploring alternate mind states - I do consider it a spiritual practice like going to church or praying, which really helps me to recognize it as a right), but it also helped to recognize when I'm abusing those rights. For example, if I really want to pursue this spiritual practice in the spirit of shamanism, I've got to be doing it for the experience itself, NOT just to get a buzz on a boring Friday evening. This has helped me to recognize which of my drug habbits are more along the lines of an addiction and which are genuine "research projects". I now recognize that my interest in marijuana is highly motivated by the buzz I experiences, the emotional uplifting and intellectually stimulating waves that overcomes my mind, and I have made a promise to my wife that as soon as our baby is born, I'm going to put the pot away, at least for five years (after which time I grant myself the right to reassess whether I want to reincorporate it into my practice). That's not to say that pot can't be used for spiritual purposes. I definitely used it for a lot of spiritual healing (fighting demons mainly), but over the past year or so, I feel like I've exhausted all the spiritual benefits it affords me, and now it's more about the buzz than anything else. I find myself promising myself to lay off the stuff for at least a couple weeks, and failing because the temptation is just too strong. I'm hoping the baby will serve as a sort of substitute - something that fulfills whatever the pot was compensating for.

Anyway, my advice to you, zen, is to just throw all those precautions to the wind and pursue what you really want - full steam ahead. For those who want to keep you back, I would recommend not fighting against them too aggressively, but focus more on your own goals - that is, remember that it's about seeking what you want in life rather than getting tangled up in wars and resentment against those who are trying to hold you back.

BTW, if you were to describe what you want to pursue in just one sentence, what would it be?

Oh, by all means, let's take this thread where ever it goes. I don't care. I actually prefer it this way. I don't know how the mods feels about topics going astray, but I hope that if they don't like it, they'll say something.

I could go on and on about the above issues. I really have a lot more to say, but I also think it's in good taste to be succinct. If this thread does go on for some time to come, I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunities for me to say what's on my mind.

 

Interesting exercise - how is it going?

I might consider making a promise like that to myself...but I know when I get pissed or depressed, I will very strongly resist keeping my promise, so it wouldn't be easy.

I think it comes from a bit of insecurity and a bit of desperation, plus plain old "being in love," which as I'm sure you realize is a form of temporary insanity. A strong person can be more realistic about who their beloved really is, and can hold out for someone truly suitable. And in that sense, I'm partly to blame for the state of my marriage, because I did have some misgivings beforehand, and I didn't heed them as I should have.

But then again, it seems that for some reason this marriage was meant to be. The Tarot told me the marriage wouldn't be so hot, but it also told me that ANY relationship I got into wouldn't be so hot. And one time a woman in a small store that my wife-to-be and I stopped into suddenly and freakishly went into angel mode - for no apparent reason she started telling us that things would work out between us - and this was a time that I was having doubts. And before our marriage I had a brief vision of our son, and how amazing he would be. My wife was given our first daughter's name in a dream, and when she told me what it was I said it was perfect. And before our first daughter was even born, I had a vision of our second daughter as a young woman. It seems that, as hard as this marriage has been for me, it does seem to serve some spiritual purposes...

Things are changing - now I'm meeting the kinds of people I want to hang around with. It's very interesting that in my tiny group of colleagues at work, one is a guy from India who is intensely philosophical and mystical, one is a guy from Barbados who is spiritually oriented and believes in Voodoo - and then there's my boss, who has a statue of a Hindu deity in her office and is studying spiritual healing. But this is now - when I was in Illinois, nobody I met was like this. I think it's just a matter of what kind of experience the spirits want to give me at any particular time. Illinois was meant to be purgatory.

I completely agree. It has been a long, hard road learning to handle my wife. I finally decided that there was no point trying to make her happy, because she never would be. Everything I did seemed to piss her off, so I finally decided I would just do what I wanted. She used to hold our sexual relationship hostage - I would need to practically prostrate myself before her and beg forgiveness for my sins before she could manage to have sex with me - so I finally decided to stop having sex with her. That was over three years ago. So she can no longer use sex as leverage to control me.

And I used to get pissed at her major big time, but I'm learning to Just Say No without getting angry - just firmly stand my ground. Very often she would not give up until I gave in - so I started telling her that the conversation was over, and that if she kept talking about it I would walk out. Inevitably she WOULD keep talking about it, because she has a very hard time giving up - so I would walk out. Go for a long walk, or a long drive. And by the time I got back home, my point generally had sunk in.

I also had to learn to analyze her irrational and unfair arguing techniques, so I could call her on it and let her know that I saw what she was doing. This was very difficult, because she's a highly intelligent woman who used her intelligence to achieve control over people any way she could - and she's so supremely gifted at rationalizing that she easily convinces people that she's right, even while she's lying and glossing over facts that don't support her position.

So you see, being married to my current wife has been an intensely useful psycho-sociological practical education for me. I couldn't have gotten an education this good at the finest schools in the world.

Agreed, to an extent - the problems come when she tries to get counselors and social workers to help her control me. THEN it becomes imperative that I be able to point out the fallacies in her statements. One time she had a counselor convinced that I have a narcissistic personality. When she was satisfied that she had achieved her goal in winning the counselor to her point of view, she went to find herself another counselor, while I kept going to the first one. After a few more weeks, the first counselor concluded, "You know, I don't think you're narcissistic at all!" And eventually she got me to see her new counselor, so as to get the new one to help her convince me that I was delusional. The second counselor grilled me intensely and mercilessly, and finally she turned to my wife and said, "I don't think he's delusional." LOL

Nowadays, of course, I refuse to play the counseling game anymore.

It might happen that way - but of course, it might not. If the usefulness of the pot has truly run its course, laying off won't be too difficult. If you're finding it difficult to give up, then you're obviously getting something from it - what might that be?

Last time I threw precautions to the wind, I ended up losing my job, being unemployed for over a year, losing my life savings, and almost ending up homeless. LOL But nevertheless, I AM pursuing my goals - just in a more careful, thought-out manner. I think when I was complaining in my previous note, I was mostly talking about past circumstances - thought there is still some of that restriction remaining.

Now there's the question of the century, isn't it? My ideas about this tend to change quite a bit, so it's difficult to answer - and this may partly explain why it's difficult for me to make progress. But I'll give it a try:

I want to become highly psychically/spiritually attuned, make contributions to others in this area, and have a fulfilling relationship with a woman who wants the same things.

There are other things too, of course, but this sentence probably lays out the core of my desires.

Old Crone is the moderator, and she's a highly enlightened one - in every sense of the word.

Yeah, notice how long a post THIS one is...

 

Meh, so-so. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I really have to believe the positive self-talk I feed myself if it is to work.

Which is why you shouldn't burden yourself with more than 5 or 10 minutes worth of serious effort.

Oh, don't say that about love. Love is fragile. It gets destroyed easily, but I think it's too sacred to be labeled "insane". You may be right from a certain perspective, but I think that's a degrading way of looking at it.

So that's 3 children from the same woman, huh? Do you think the spark between you and your wife is completely dead? Do you think divorce would be the best option for you? Your situation reminds me a lot of my brother-in-law's. He's married to a real bitch and if it wasn't for the fact that they have a two year old son, I think he would just divorce her. He has no chance of winning custody though. He's not even a permanent resident in Canada (he's mexican). He doesn't work (can't work). His wife is the sole breadwinner supporting the family as a corporate lawyer (so she'd have the upper hand in any legal proceedings). Do you feel the situation is the same with you (in terms of the kids being a major playing card), or does your marriage still stand of chance?

HA! HA! That just gave me a mental image of driving into Illinois. The sign says "Illinois - Welcome to purgatory".



So what does the company you work for do?

Sounds like you already understand what I was getting at in my last post - about remembering what's OK for you to do and not get wrapped up in arguments and trying to justify yourself.

That's more than being stubborn and unreasonable. That's really cruel. The only thing worse I can imagine is to incarcerate you into a mental asylum. I can't imagine that does good to your trust for her. For me, that would put me in a constant state of being on my guard against any suspicious motives my wife might have towards me. That would be like living with a professional brainwasher 24/7. You must be incredibly strong to put up with all that and maintain hope and a positive attitude about life.



I wonder if you're in any psychological danger by living with her.

To be honest, when I get these urges to smoke pot, it feels much the same as the urges to drink alcohol. They're both pleasurable experiences and it feels like the opportunity is there and I have no reason not to take it - you know, like the wife's gone to bed, I've got nothing to do next morning, I'm not hurting anybody... why not? It's the not having a reason that's hard to fight.



As for the reasons why it's pleasurable, there is a difference. Alcohol gives me more of a body/emotional buzz, whereas pot gives me an intellectual/spiritual buzz. Pot makes me feel spiritually uplifted and alive. It reinforces all my spiritual beliefs. It's also good for facing my inner demons (my deepest fears) and to practice my "buddhist resolve" as I've come to call it.



Nonetheless, it's still the buzz that drives me to take it. My justifications for taking it are, and have always been, to become familiar with the experiences, learning from them and finding use in them. A good example that really makes the difference stand out is salvia. The salvia experience is definitely very different from that of pot. It's a very intense experience and there is a lot within it to explore. However, unlike pot, it really doesn't give you a buzz. In fact, I get nervous every time I take it - sometimes wondering if I shouldn't. There's no urge there, no eagerness. Only a slight nervousness. That's the real test - it separates the experience seekers from the buzz seekers.



That's not to say that pot doesn't have its uses. Like I said, I go through the experience seeing if there's anything useful in it. There's definitely a lot of useful things in pot, even for someone like me who who feels he's not getting anything new from it, but I really feel like this phase of my life is a sort of test - a test in which I need to prove to myself that I can resist temptation and avoid potential addiction. Something I remember reading about the path the Buddhist takes seems to be paralleling this.



Besides, it's not like I'm giving it up forever. Like I said, I just abstaining from for the next five years, after which time I'll reassess whether I need to reincorporate it into my practice or not. On top of that, I'm not giving up other psychedelics. I'm sure that if I absolutely need to keep up that feeling of "spiritual aliveness" that I get with pot, other drugs will do the trick just as well - it'll just be fewer and farther between.

Well it sounds like you're already on the right track, like I said above. Sounds like you know what I'm talking about.

Well, it sounds like you've already started. I read that thread between you and Riesay, and it sounds like you've helped her out quite a bit (how's she doing, by the way?) I think if you had a partner (a female companion) who could join you in this adventure, that would give your pursuit quite a boost. You've also made a few strides on this path by finding yourself a niche with those coworkers of yours - that should really accelerate things.



If you really want to practice your psychic skills, you can always practice on me (no one's past my psychic challenge yet ). I was thinking of something Mara said earlier - that psychedelics can heighten one's openness to psychic connections. I was thinking of smoking pot (actually, it's called "spice" - very similar to pot) at a pre-planned scheduled time that we would both agree on, and see if you can read anything from my psychi half-way across the continent. I'll let you know about this though.

 

This is pretty long, so I'm going to take the phased approach to answering. Here's Phase 1:

Yeah, that might be doable...

Ummm...well, if it's that serious - it shouldn't be. The "temporary insanity" term is a bit of a joke...but Gib, the thing is that the state of being "in love" is a hormonally mediated alteration of awareness. And being "in love" is different from "loving" someone. Love takes work...love is what happens after the alteration of awareness ends. Now this is a simplifictation, of course - there's a bonding that happens during the state of being "in love," and that bonding tends to never completely go away. That person's face will always grab your eyes, even if you've been away from each other for years. But I'm not making this stuff up to be cynical.

This all reminds me of a time I told Emily I loved her, and she asked, "What is love?" and I fell all over myself trying to give her a factual, comprehensive answer...what I should have said is, "It's all chemicals." LOL Sorry, Gib. I agree that there's a spiritual aspect - and that's what I fell all over myself trying to explain to Emily. But really, I should have just lightened up and had some fun with her...

Four actually - I didn't mention daughter number 3 because neither of us had any psychic knowledge concerning her.

No, not completely, but it's a question of whether we can make this work, and I don't believe we can.

That's complictated...let's see what you have to say about your brother-in-law, and then I'll address it...

Yes, this is a bit similar...we have five kids still at home, and financially we're living right on the brink of disaster, so there's no way we could support two households. However in our family, I'm by far the major breadwinner - for years I was the only breadwinner, but now my wife has embarked on a career, and she's working half time and attending school. But even if we had enough money to support two households, I would still hate to be away from my kids...so I might elect to continue as one household even then. And then there's the fact that I don't entirely trust my wife - she has said things that make me think that if we divorced, she would try using the "delusional" card on me to try to get full custody. She SAYS she thinks it's important for the kids to have me in their life...but I don't trust her much, for reasons I think I've explained pretty well.

I work for a mutual fund company. If I told you the name, you'd recognize it. But I'm in a position of trust for a lot of clients, so I want to keep my work separate from any associations with this kind of pyschic weirdness. That's why I'm not telling you the name of the company here.

Yup. I'm willing to discuss things - until she shows me that she's going to be obsessive, irrational, and unreasonable. At that point I realize there's no point talking anymore.

I see you DO understand my life. Luckily the pressure isn't on all the time...but yeah, I can never completely relax with her. And I'm very often not successful with the hope and positive attitude.

I've wondered the same thing...and add to this the shit Emily did to me...plus the shit that her predecessor Dani did to me, which I haven't even told you about. So...sometimes I feel strong, sometimes I feel damaged. I guess if I felt damaged ALL the time, I'd be in danger. As it is, maybe I'm just being stretched.


That's it for Phase 1. In Phase 2 I'll talk about urges and obsessions...yours and mine.

 

Okay, I'm on lunch break, and have a bit of time for Phase 2.

Well it sounds like you've covered all the bases. You seem to know yourself well.

At first I looked askance at your idea of using pot to prove to yourself that you can resist temptation and addiction - but then I realized I'm doing something similar with alcohol. I've gone in spurts throughout my life - sometimes I've gone months or even years without a drink. For the past few months I've been drinking almost every day. I keep a vodka bottle next to my bed, which doubles as my home office, and after dinner I'll start sipping vodka as I do stuff on my laptop - you may have seen some evidence of this in some of my posts. LOL However when my last bottle ran out about a week and a half ago, I didn't buy another one - mostly because I'm just finding it a more expensive habit than I like, but also because I thought it would be good to show myself I can do fine without it. Actually, in fact, I think I do better without it - I don't stay up so damn late, and I don't wake up every morning feeling like the ogre from hell, so these are good things.

On the other hand, the vodka helps me deal with some things - after a couple drinks, I can manage to write about some things in my book that are too painful to deal with when I'm sober. But I'm not making much progress on the book anyway...[sigh].

I stopped smoking pot roughly 33 years ago. I miss the smell and taste, I miss the paraphernalia and the mossy, earthy, spaced-out texture it gave everything. But I don't miss the demons. Maybe it would be helpful for me to deal with them again, now that I'm stronger. But I also felt it fogged my thinking, and in the current state of the spirits making me pay through the nose for even the slightest tip-toe outside the lines, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if I had some, I would get in legal trouble for it, which would have effects on my career also, so I'm just not interested - I don't miss it enough to risk that - not even close. And I don't want to sneak around, and I don't want to complicate relations with my kids. So there is just no way, for me.

As far as your decision, I'd be interested in how you feel about it after your five-year hiatus.

Yeah, I know what I'm talking about...but it still isn't easy, and frequently I feel as if more doors are closing than opening. Plus the fact is that I'm not always wholeheartedly dedicated to a consistent path...I waver and rethink things a lot.

Riesay seems to be doing very well, based on the last time we "talked." She is a remarkable girl - and she helped ME out quite a bit, too.

Well, it would motivate me more...and it would make life a lot more fun in general.

It's a nice morale boost to work in an atmosphere that makes me feel comfortable sharing the things that are important to me.

I'm also going to a Sonia Choquette workshop in late April - I've never been to one, though I've wanted to for years. I finally found one I can afford.

Yeah, I still can't get myself to concentrate on that - it still bores the hell out of me. LOL

I think what psychedelics do is to force our conscious attention out of its rut, and also increase our awareness of our thoughts, our environment, and the connections between the two.

Interesting thought...I could give that a try, if you like.

 

Well, I'm going to try to cut down the length in this post. I'll address only the more significant points.

I don't think the delusion card would work nearly as strongly as you might think, for several reasons:



1) You've seen at least two counselors who can vouch for you saying you're not delusional. You can even see others to get more support.



2) There's no reason to call it a delusion: you can get away with "spiritual belief" and "spiritual practice" (i.e. instead of saying "I'm psychic" say "I'm trying to exercise my psychic abilities"). That just makes you a normal person following his own spiritual path.



3) Even if the court refuses to recognize your gift as anything but "delusion", they still have to tie that in to your skills as a parent. So you believe you're psychic. Does that make you dangerous? Does that make you an uncaring unloving father? Does that make you unable to function in society? If anything, I think your past history speaks in your favor (well, losing your job might be another matter, but you seem to be more the victim of abuse rather than an inflictor of it - and hopefully your current job makes up for the past).



4) Your wife's use of the delusion card only works for her so long as people believe her - but once they see what her ulterior motives are (to gain more control over you), the tables turn in your favor. In fact, it makes her look like she's suffering from some "disorders" of her own - narcissism maybe? Domineering personality? Psychologically abusive? You've already seen this happen with the counselors she made you see. I'm sure with a bit of explaining and demonstrating of the way she treats you, others will see things your way too.



5) I'm not so sure a fanatical fundamentalist christian is the best parent a kid could ask for. I'm not so sure the courts would look favorably on a parent who suffers "delusions" that he's psychic, but you certainly don't strike me as a bad parents by any stretch of the imagination. You seem like a loving, open, soft hearted persons which would spill over into your parenting. Your wife, on the other hand, sounds very cold, domineering, strict, and not very expressively loving - something tells me this hardness of heart would spill over into her parenting. Let's face it, the judgmental, guilt inflicting, chastising christian type is not exactly reputed as the warm, loving, motherly type who would be able to raise psychologically healthy, happy, and confident children. You may be judged to be "delusional", but she stands more of a chance of being judged unfit for parenting.



Anyway, that's just me being judgmental myself. I hardly know you or your wife... but I am just trying to help you out by spinning out new perspectives and ideas based on what you told me (that's sort of one of my crafts). Also, please keep in mind that I don't think you're delusional - I'm just describing the situation as the courts might interpret it (damn western ideology ).

Have you ever considered writing your thoughts and feeling down on paper? Then showing them to your wife? That's what I do with my wife when civility gets thrown out the window and our discussions turn into shouting matches. It gives me time to think and be very, very careful about what I say and how I say it.

I'd like to see you get better. As I said above, my craft is inventing new perspectives to offer people. It requires being creative and seeing the sliver of gray between the black and white, and then blowing that up to discover new opportunities. Sometimes I need a boost from psychedelics to enhance my creativity though.

Believing that can make it real.

Actually no. You hide it well.



I started drinking heavily a while back. My wife got worried about it and often complained. It was hard to quit because it was just there, it was legal, I figured I wasn't hurting anyone, it felt good, so what the hell! Finally, I made her a promise not to drink alone - only with friends. And in hindsight, I'm glad I made this promise.



As for the pot, it would probably be best if you didn't get into it. Maybe once you're retired and all the kids have left home, but even then you've got to judge whether it fits in with your lifestyle and mind-state and all that. You be the judge.



You know, zen, it's hard to drag one's self out of the gutters of depression and despair after a life of hardship and suffering. I think this holds you back majorly. Just a thought, but have you considered that the bleakness you see in your life (like more doors closing than opening or more forces holding you back than helping you forward) might actually be echoes from the past and not forces acting in your present? What I mean is, we often "taint" the way we see things (usually without a choice because we don't know how to see it any other way) based on our past experiences. It can be difficult to tease apart the way things really are in the present (objectively) from the impurities from the past that spill into our view of the present. I'm not sure if I'm being totally clear here, but does any of this ring true at all?

 

you ARE a spirit. you MAY have nonphysical friends. most of us do. in fact you probably have many, even if you don't know about it.

=^^=
.../\...