Did Holocaust Really Happen?

Its not a problem that someone called me a Jew - thats not the point - the point is I really am astounded that anyone would think of it as a term of abuse. I was merely trying to draw out of Topolm what it is that makes him use that term as though it were some kind of slur.
I can only think that he believes Jews are not worthy of him.
It is not a word I have ever considered offensive so - I dont mind that he said it - just wanted to know why he says it as a slur?

I have met people who are jews - Most of the time I dont even know when someone is a jew if I am talking to them - rascism just isnt what I'm about.
My next door neighbour is Jewish and theyre quite nice people. I was surprised when they told me they were jewish but it didnt make me think anything different of them. I never understand rascism etc - its silly !
I must admit that my muslim friends also freak me out like that and have told them much the same thing, that I think their fear and racism toward Jews is a pointless, absurd and completely laughable problem that they have.

I am white - english and atheist - but I am so used to seeing people of different nationalities and colour that I just dont see a difference in people anymore - thsi may be a reason why

wikipedia

 

I try not to be racist.
I like white individuals for the most part, but white people got a lot of bad karma coming their way...

Racism doesnt make sence anyway, but if you're going to view the world through a racial lens, then white people are the obvious bad guys, who haven't they fucked over? and it continues today...

White People, not jews...

 

GW Granddaddy Prescott Bush made a killing laundering $ for the Nazi's.

If one is to deny the Holocaust they might as well deny the fact that the sky is blue.

 

If you know Bush made millions off the Third Reich, why do you not question other aspects of history?

 

My opinion of the holocaust was that it wasn't meant to be a genocide, it was supposed to be a HUGE slave camp taking over all of germany so that companies like IG farben could make record profits...but it went way too far and they didn't take care of the people inside of them like they should have and millions started dying, then the final solution was planned because it had gotten too out of hand and they needed to just get rid of all the rest of the people who had witnessed all the atrocities.

 

I agree ^

If the National Socialists had planned a complete genocide from the start, and the undesireables were simply pieces of meat to be murdered, why would they be sent to secure camps and tatooed with a number (atrocious), or be issued special currency, or have football fields (soccer fields), or even swimming pools, some camps had brothels.

Take that with the fact that the NSDAP made many efforts to simply deport these people, and there are no offical orders or documents calling for their physical extermination, and the picture of deliberate genocide is not complete.
Of course it would be awful to be there and certainly brutalities happened as with all human wars. I hope that in time, Germany is not known simply for being Nazis as is largely shown in mass media.

And you know, I almost could deny the sky being blue, what with chemtrails and all. My area in southern California is bombarded with them everyday.

To Shane, research Zionism. (link)

 

Kblaze, what do you feel those chemtrails are? I see them all the time and hear lots of different theories.

 

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3079847#post3079847
Posts 131,132,133 you racist...

The obvious bad guys are Jews. My contempt for them is based on historical evidence that they are incompatible with other groups of people and are extremely mobilized parasitical minorities that commandeer that financial, political, academica and media systems in every country where they reside in large numbers.

You on the other hand have nothing but blind hatred of white. It is a sign of mental illness. White people fucked everyone over LOL!. What an inversion of reality.

Unless you're a braindead fanatical devotee to multi-racialism, you would do well to read Posts 131,132 and 133
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3079847#post3079847

Why dont you educate yourself instead of sounding provincial and backwards.

 

"The obvious bad guys are Jews. My contempt for them is based on historical evidence that they are incompatible with other groups of people and are extremely mobilized parasitical minorities that commandeer that financial, political, academica and media systems in every country where they reside in large numbers"

Examples?

 

First off, i don't hate white people, i was making fun of you (see post#100).

Blaming white people is a mental illness, but blaming jews is not?

I would say seriously blaming any particular race of people for the worlds problems is a sign of mental illness.

But if you do suffer from that illness why would you blame Jews and not White People?

Are you saying that all the atrocities committed by Europeans over the years has secretly been the fault of the Jews?

 

I think I understand what Topholm is saying.

"The Jews" as being notoriously referred to for decades, are merely the owners of financial institutions, which can therefore make them owners of governments (The Western World), owners of newspapers, television stations, film studios, publishing companies, radio stations, hell, even Wikipedia.

I would call this racist gang The Zionists, but that term has somewhat of a popular conotation already. They are Israelis who own the means to make reality, so to speak, and unfortunaltey, if they are Talmud-believing Jews, they are probably very self-centered and would see the rest of Earth, even their own kind, as cattle. I almost feel bad for them them if they were born into that position...and I don't mean all Talmud-Believing Jews are selfish-racists, but it's similar to the "not all Muslims are terrorists" point.

I'm more interested in progressing human society, therefore eliminating the possibility for anybody to gain that sort of power over the human mind. I don't want to point fingers or blame specific groups like there's some massive scheme, but all the decadence in America at least could be blamed on "Zionists" like Sumner Redstone, head of Viacom, who promotes the garbage on MTV that gets 8 year olds to wear g-strings.

They actually do own quite a lot of "stuff."
also interesting

 

You and i limit our criticism to Zionists(yes, im familiar with their crimes, though i dont believe them to be as all powerful as some CTs claim, Israel's crimes against the palestinian people are enough to make you hate it's guts).

not so with topolm.

When he says that the jews are evil, he means the jews as an entire race...

as in the classic racist: the jews!!!
genetically predisposed to evil.

You can imagine him recoiling with horror as stereotypical images of hooknosed, satan worshiping, swindlers dance in his head.

To him white people are the real children of israel.
Black people are dumbing down america through interracial marriage.
Hispanics are erasing white culture and replacing it with their own.
liberals are turning our boys gay and impotent.
And its all a huge conspiracy by the Jews to control the white people.

you know, classic Aryan Brotherhood type shit.

Oh and if you dont buy into it, you're a racist who is jealous of the white man and his accomplishments.

He attempts to appeal to CTs and anarchists by railing against "the elite", but it's the same old ant-semitic shit (true anti-semitism, not the "you cant say anything negative about israel" PC kind).

look up Third Positionalism.

it's neo-fascism hiding behind the language of revolutionaries.

Neo-Fascism, The Third Position, topolm

The existence of these type of people are what allow Israel to commit it's crimes without anyone saying boo....

 

You don't want to point fingers, but you just did.

The zionists make our kids wear g-strings?

 

It is a fact that the British are historically the most warlike race on earth the aggression of British governments is unparralleled but being exceded by the USA. Although Britain is one of the smallest countries on Earth its empire was the largest in histor and at its height covered just over 1/4 of the earths land surface. You would not manage an empire lasting some 300 years without being aggressive.
Now that the debts for WW2 have been fully repaid (last week) to the USA and Canada this gives Britain some leverage in its own autonomy again and with the help of the USA they seem to be advancing the empire of the English speaking peoples again. Dont forget - Britain is the last country to be able to claim to have an empire in the strict sense of the word and it had to use the entire wealth of that empire to fight WW1 and 2 - they basically paid their entire wealth to North America to pay for troops and weapons. Now they can use that money to advance imperialism again
I dont see how you can criticise whites though, the Egyptian empirre lasted 1000's of years and was just as brutal. Its not races that are brutal its imperialists of any race

The fact is that what racists laughably fail to see is that to a large extent their blaming jews for everything is usually based on the fact that they themselves have very little ability to manouvre out of whatever dire financial or social position they are rebelling against. It becomes natural to blame someonelse because they then dont have to blame themselves.

This argument is getting silly though - Kblaze is about as compis mentis as a trained parrot - Topolm is reciting every cliche in the book and theres really not much you can do to argue with people who dont really think

Cuz if you were thinking you would ask yourself this:
So fucking what if Jews or anyonelse are causing all these conspiracies - just what do you get out of it even if you help nazism to rise and eliminate those people? NO-ONE not even a fascist is gonna lift your sad asses out of whatever pit youre in! and then it will be the fascists that cause all the conspiraciess and hate you - so just what does it matter - it aint like youre gonna suddenly overnight be an acclaimed part of the glorious party - like 99.99% of us you'd still be an obscure nobody

 

think I understand what Topholm is saying.

"The Jews" as being notoriously referred to for decades, are merely the owners of financial institutions, which can therefore make them owners of governments (The Western World), owners of newspapers, television stations, film studios, publishing companies, radio stations, hell, even Wikipedia.

What proof have you for this?

I mean the is you gave a link to wasn’t very overwhelming (I noticed one of the people was Robert Maxwell who I think died over 15 years ago). It’s a list it doesn’t mean anything. Think about it a large number of people in UK politics are Scottish but it is a rather huge leap from pointing this out to saying that there is a organised Scottish conspiracy and that all these people are working together to control the UK in favour of the Scots.

“but all the decadence in America”

What do you mean by decadent? Music sells, and above all else the US is a country of consumerist capitalism (legal or illegal). Are you saying that you would legislate to curb the capitalist system and what it can and cannot sell?

 

Balbus, you have to go step by step. You say you want proof... It is an OPEN secret that the media and Hollywood is owned and operated by Jews. There is NO debate. Democrats and Repubs get most of their money from Jewish interest groups. VERY well known. Leading champions of nonwhite immigration to white countries are Jews. Republicans and Democrats kiss AIPAC's ass. Nancy Pelosi - supposedly an ultra liberal, supports racist apartheid Israel. Reconcile this. I take you have read the Walt Mearchmeir report?????

First and foremost, read the culture of critique by Prof Kevin MacDonald. Get back to me when you're done, and we'll move from there. Just the facts...One step at a time.

Available as a PDF:
www.prometheism.net/library/CultureOfCritique.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Critique-Evolutionary-Twentieth-Century-Intellectual/dp/0759672229
Here is ONE review of the book

The best word for describing this tour de force of knowledge that Dr. Kevin MacDonald has written is simply; sad. It made me so sad and angry to read this book, more than any other book has ever affected me.

The prose is excellent, and I'm almost inclined to mystical explanations in explaining Dr. MacDonald's appearance with this tome in the West's hour of greatest need. In almost every field you can imagine, the decline of the Germanic (WASP) or Northern-European man has at least equalled the rise of the Jews.

The most annoying and dangerous aspect of today's intellectual climate is the total and explicitly Jewish victory in enforcing their views as the standard in the intellectual trends and movements of our time. This is what this book chronicles. From the gradual and then eventually sudden disappearance of physical anthropology and theories of race that happened in Anthropology, thanks more or less exclusively to the influence of Franz Boas personal vendetta against the idea of "race", and contrary to popular belief, NOT as a result of any scientific reasons for this change.

Then he goes on to describe the climate of leftist radicalism that oozed from pretty much every corner of the Jewish community worldwide, although he limits himself to the American Jews. It's nice to have it on paper that the Jews were indeed massively overrepresented in the various communist and socialist organizations and trends of thought that arose in the West. Although not limited exclusively to Jews, they were once again a necessary condition for the climate of leftwing radicalism in the 20th century, that went on and on for years, and when forced to acknowledge that there would be no complete both economic and cultural communist revolution, were satisfied to radicalize gentile society's culture instead (The counter-cultural revolution and onwards).

The book then turns to the psychoanalytical movement, and its centre; Dr. Sigmund Freud. He shows that once again, contrary to popular belief, the psychoanalytical aspect of psychology has basically been debunked. Yet STILL, it is treated as a valuable contribution in the field of psychology, even though it extremely seldom has contributed to the recovery of any mental patients. Through extremely interesting quotes, we learn that psychoanalysis was, and to a large degree still is, a movement consisting of Jews. Freud himself was indeed very racially motivated, and wrote with a terminology of race, that a gentile author today would be ostracized for using. An extremely important chapter for anyone that has gone to academia, or plan to.

Then the book covers the possibly deadliest attack that the West has ever taken, the emergence of the Frankfurter school of social research. This group of Jews, and later on, philosemites, has basically destroyed the moral foundation of the West. We, as men of the North, have gone from being secure and confident rulers of the West and possibly the Universe; to becoming what you see when you turn on your television today, much thanks to these people and their ideas. I cannot emphasize enough the damage these people have done to the entire West, their work now being carried on by their intellectual heirs in our various countries; Jew and gentile alike. Any degree of group cohesion between gentiles, and especially Germanic and Europeans in general, is today looked upon as a disease of the mind. We have no moral right to neither our land, nor our culture anymore, very much thanks to the work of these basically evil people. They knew perfectly well what they were doing, although some degree of self-deception probably also had a role to play. We are now merely millions upon millions of individuals in the West, no group commitment at all, except small fringe elements of right-wing activists and thinkers, and in our midst is a highly racially and culturally conscious element with a very large power in the West. This chapter is among the most important writing ever written, I believe.

Further on it covers the atmosphere of Jewish criticism of gentile culture and institutions, that the overwhelmingly Jewish media and Jewish intellectuals have been committed to, in journals such as The New York Book Review, and other places. The wonderful quotes by various gentile authors that had their first encounter with this rather alien milieu he has dug up, is astonishing. He shows that what this large group of well-known names we all know in the West; Sidney Hook, Hannah Arendt, Paul Goodman, Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Meyer Schapiro and all the others, were highly committed Jews on a mission. He chronicles the desperate fight the people of the South and West of the US fought against the influence of these highly committed Jews. This is what was known as "McCarthyism". His historical insight is very good, and he pierces through much that was unknown to most of us, I'm quite sure.

Then before the conclusion, he rounds it off with the most important chapter and the end-term effect of all the other Jewish movements he has reviewed; the Jewish involvement in shaping the US immigration policy. Here, you see the real-life effects of the intellectual climate of the West, largely created by dedicated Jews, the change that occurred. From the temporary 1924 victory of the Wasp's in the immigration legislation, to the utter defeat, and possibly, the nail in the coffin for the Indo-European people as a whole, in the 1965 immigration legislation change. The 40 years that passed between those two marks in the history of our people, was the final, (albeit temporary) victory of Judaism over the West. Dr.MacDonald shows that there was only ONE group, and one group ONLY, that worked continuously towards the goal of changing the immigration laws. Every other group in the US were content that the 1924 legislation were fair to all races and groups represented in the US at that time, and that they would continue to be so for all time. The change that has led to over a hundred million non-Europeans today living in the current-age US, had as a necessary condition; Jews. The change would otherwise never have happened, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find any thinking men or women in the US or in the West in general, that find the massive non-European invasion of our biological space a positive change.

He then rounds off with his conclusion, "Whither Judaism and the West?". Here he concludes that the effect Jews have had upon the West has been extremely detrimental, and unless we, as a racial group, get our bearings, we will simply disappear. In a hundred years time, we have gone from being over 30 % of the population on Earth, to the fact that today, only one in hundred persons is a European female in child-bearing age. We are a dying people, and we need to wake up, and regain the moral imperative we once had in the World. Read this book, and his other books, it's a necessary condition for the survival of the West, without reading it, you won't have a clue why we are in the state we are.

I can't recommend it enough, if you only plan on reading one book, for the sake of our future children, let this be it.

 

I think we already do this. In the past attornies, doctors and pharmacuticals couldn't be advertised but alcohol and cigarettes could. Now we've gone in reverse. I find the drug ads very strange especially when they have to go through their spiels on side effects and contra indications, but they are the most prevalent ads on the tube these days. If people actually listened to the disclaimers no one would take their magic potions. But hey Joe Camel and Spuds McKenzie are subversive and they've been outlawed.

 

topolm

“It is an OPEN secret that the media and Hollywood is owned and operated by Jews. There is NO debate”

The ‘every knows’ argument always makes me suspicious, I mean it is almost always used by people whose evidence is weak and so need to point to some supposed ‘popular’ opinion that is usually based on some kind of bias or prejudice. Like those people who used to claim that old women that had a cat must be witches and therefore needed a turn in the ducking chair. Which of course led to another ‘everyone knows’, the everyone knows that if someone is ducked and drowns they are not a witch but if they survive they are a witch and must be killed.

It’s like the guy that claims that everyone knows that women that will not sleep with him are lesbians.

So please stop the BS and please explain why you mean by this, and in your own words I don’t want some cut and paste spiel.

**

The problem is that opinion based on opinion is just opinion it is not some fact or truth. Many other people have looked at Prof Kevin MacDonald’s work and come to other conclusions than his own.

You might say so what, you believe MacDonald, but the problem is that are you reading him objectively or from a position of bias or prejudice?

Just to take one example

“Then he goes on to describe the climate of leftist radicalism that oozed from pretty much every corner of the Jewish community worldwide, although he limits himself to the American Jews. It's nice to have it on paper that the Jews were indeed massively overrepresented in the various communist and socialist organizations and trends of thought that arose in the West.”

Which means what exactly, what are you implying?

Are you saying that all these left wingers with some Jewish connection were all faking their beliefs and were in fact all in cahoots for some other purpose?

Then prove it, if not, so what.

Actually many people have been involved in left wing politics over the years just as people have been involved in right wing politics.

I mean you have to start from the premise that ‘the Jews were up to something’ to read anything into this. If you don’t, all you can see are the politics ideas. Now you might be opposed to the left wing ideas but what has that to do with race, unless you views are racist not political.

It’s the same with the rest of the points you have stated, a person would have to start with the idea that ‘the jews are up to something’ and go looking for evidence to back that up for the ‘revelations’ MacDonald pushes to actually mean anything.

This sounds a lot like that old chestnut of a conspiracy theory, the Jews trying to take over the world.

 

gardener

“I think we already do this”

Sorry I have limited time at the moment and so am unable to cover things as exactly (read long) as I would wish, I hope you will excuse me.

But I’ll try and explain

I know that states do legislate to limit some products or activities, the thing for me is when a person calls for legislation based on moralistic or ‘racial’ grounds.

What is decadent and what decent?

“but all the decadence in America at least could be blamed on "Zionists" like Sumner Redstone, head of Viacom, who promotes the garbage on MTV that gets 8 year olds to wear g-strings”

This time it is somehow ‘Zionists’ to blame but we have had people on the forum that have blamed ‘black culture’ for the US’s supposed decadence.

But who dictates what is garbage and what isn’t in a consumerist society it is the market, in the legal system or out of it.

But over the years here I have found that many people who are basing their ideas on religious, moral, or racial grounds often support the very economic system that is the real reason for their complaints.

 

You need to read the book first. It is not based on opinion or feelings: it is factually based. When you've read it we can chat, until then, you are biased against the truth. I give ZERO weight to your request that I write in my own words. I have written in my own words. When it comes to facts, facts can and SHOULD be cut and pasted LOL!.Facts are facts.

Its like you saying, let's debate whether or not wwII happened, but you cant use an encyclopedia as evidence LOL! You have to use your own words. You sound silly.

THis is the preface to the book, so what you are saying completely bunk.
CofC describes how Jewish intellectuals initiated and advanced a number of important intellectual and political movements during the 20th century. I argue that these movements are attempts to alter Western societies in a manner that would neutralize or end anti-Semitism and enhance the prospects for Jewish group continuity either in an overt or in a semi-cryptic manner. Several of these Jewish movements (e.g., the shift in immigration policy favoring non-European peoples) have attempted to weaken the power of their perceived competitors — the European peoples who early in the 20th century had assumed a dominant position not only in their traditional homelands in Europe, but also in the United States, Canada, and Australia. At a theoretical level, these movements are viewed as the outcome of conflicts of interest between Jews and non-Jews in the construction of culture and in various public policy issues. Ultimately, these movements are viewed as the expression of a group evolutionary strategy by Jews in their competition for social, political and cultural dominance with non-Jews.

Here I attempt to answer some typical criticisms that have been leveled against CofC. (See also my website: www.csulb.edu/~kmacd). I also discuss issues raised by several books that have appeared since the publication of CofC.

There have been complaints that I am viewing Judaism in a monolithic manner. This is definitely not the case. Rather, in each movement that I discuss, my methodology has been:

(1.) Find influential movements dominated by Jews, with no implication that all or most Jews are involved in these movements and no restrictions on what the movements are. For example, I touch on Jewish neo-conservatism which is a departure in some ways from the other movements I discuss. In general, relatively few Jews were involved in most of these movements and significant numbers of Jews may have been unaware of their existence. Even Jewish leftist radicalism — surely the most widespread and influential Jewish subculture of the 20th century — may have been a minority movement within Jewish communities in the United States and other Western societies for most periods. As a result, when I criticize these movements I am not necessarily criticizing most Jews. Nevertheless, these movements were influential and they were Jewishly motivated. (2.) Determine whether the Jewish participants in those movements identified as Jews AND thought of their involvement in the movement as advancing specific Jewish interests. Involvement may be unconscious or involve self-deception, but for the most part it was quite easy and straightforward to find evidence for these propositions. If I thought that self-deception was important (as in the case of many Jewish radicals), I provided evidence that in fact they did identify as Jews and were deeply concerned about Jewish issues despite surface appearances to the contrary. (See also Ch. 1 of CofC.)

(3.) Try to gauge the influence of these movements on non-Jewish society. Keep in mind that the influence of an intellectual or political movement dominated by Jews is independent of the percentage of the Jewish community that is involved in the movement or supports the movement.

(4.) Try to show how non-Jews responded to these movements — for example, were they a source of anti-Semitism?

​

LOL!
You are very very very naive. Its not a conspiracy theory at all. I dont think Jews are trying to take over the world. THe evidence suggests that Jews are seeking to destroy European people by undermining their cultures with massive 3rd world immigration, cultural marxism, attacking christendom, promoting all kinds of cultural filth and degradation etc etc etc. "The Culture of Critique" describes this in great detail, citing Jewish writers. I know. You DONT WANT TO READ IT. Others do and thats more important for me.