Dear Liberals/Libertarians herein..

/thread

 

The cons in the government have helped the rich accomplish the fleecing of America, by putting their spending on the credit card(national debt) Raygun added $1.5 to the debt, Shrub daddy added $2 trillion to the debt, Clinton added a trillion but balanced the budget and left office with a $300 billion surplus(the only POTUS to balance the budget ever), Shrub Jr. destroyed the surplus in less than six months and doubled the national debt from$5.5 trillion to almost $12 trillion. He also destroyed the U.S. and global economies, and gave the rich a trillion dollar bailout. Shrub Jr. wasted $3 trillion on the Iraq war, and for what?
BTW, there are NO poor in congress. They're all rich! The voters DO have the power to change that, if they weren't idiots! Consider the French Revolution, where the poor gave the Guillotine to the rich. When things get bad enough, and the time is coming soon, when government and society fall apart, money will be worthless. YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD!
"When the blind lead the blind, both fall in the ditch."

 

Most anytime I hear of people approving higher taxes or giving more money to the government it is because said voter/donator isn't investigating how the money is to be spent. As a matter of fact, they are not asking how the current money is being spent. Wait wait.....I don't think they ever questioned about how past decades of tax revenues has been spent.

I hear statements such as "education needs to improve", so we must give more money. Nowhere do I hear how that will be done. If I don't hear good answers before more money is thrown at them, how is it that I'll see good answer afterwards????

I've known from an early age that I want to control my own money, and make my own choices about where my money is spent. As a citizen, it is absolutely within my responsibility to comply with tax laws designed to strengthen infrastructure that serves us all equally.

 

When I have time, I'll write more, but I was put off by your opening statement where you say that the "far right" and the "far left" need to talk.

There is no "far left" in this country. They have disappeared. How often do you hear of the U.S. Communist Party any more? President Obama is slightly to the left of center. Michael Moore I would call "left", but not "far left". Nothing really radical about what he says.

The real problem in our country is that the Republicans have moved to the extreme right and they can't even talk to the center. They have become fundamentalists who cannot accept science and reality. What the GOP calls "left" is just your average, intelligent, educated American who believes in science and sensible solutions to problems.

 

"sensible solutions" through government. In my experience with the U.S Government, everything they touch dies. Wouldn't it even be a bit more logical, instead of creating all new government programs and hiring MORE government employees, to just GIVE that money directly to charities that do the same thing!?

I think Liberals assume too much from government. Like government should somehow tend to everyone's need since it's "everyone's" money. The middle class in this country is shrinking due to over taxation. The fact of the matter is, 49% of the popular vote went to Romney and there's a reason; the middle class is shrinking due to the faults of our government and wealth is being transferred to the wealthiest 1% of the country. They're feeling that burden and voted for "the other guy," in a petty attempt to "fix the economy."

But only Austrian economics and limited government could fix this economy, because we're spending more than we're making!!! And many Liberals such as yourself simply suggest to "spend more," frankly, it's absurd in my opinion. But obviously you don't care to pass a $20,000 debt onto your children and grandchildren!!!

 

Well, at least you made it a few posts without being a dick. That's an improvement.

 

The more taxes you pay, the more services I expect back, not being used to save banks and industries that have gone wrong at no fault of my own. I don't care abounthe shareholders, it is their prerogative to invest ot not, you take risks. But the average worker who loses his job bacause of cost cutting and streamlining needs support. So they need a union and if they lose their jobs they need unemployment benefit until they can find new work. The government should be investing in creating new jobs, better education, better health services.

Business should recieve NO help from government. people should.

 

Well I wasn't trying to be a dick. I'm a New Yorker, it comes natural sometimes . But, no. That's just how I feel. I've been listening to people slander my beliefs, I am only expressing how I perceive yours.

 

Really?

Absolutely we've seen the Rep party come to the center. Too much so for my own preference. We've grown quite frustrated with the likes of McCain and Schwartznegger. Yet, I have to respect those in my party for their problem solving attitude and openness to give up some of their ideals. I'm more stubborn and dreamy I suppose. I would never think myself unintelligent or uneducated though. But thanks.

 

Taxes are lower now than at any point in the last 30 years. So, that could not be the reason the middle class is shrinking.

The obvious reason it is shrinking is that for 20 years or so, wages have not gone up nearly as much as the exploding costs of food, health care, college education, and energy. Now, that doesn't explain very much by itself.

There has been an enormous failure of capitalism. Nearly all the benefits of our expanding economy have gone to the 1%. Trickle-down is a hoax, but widely believed due to the undue influence of big money on politics and the media. Lobbyists have insured that the rich and powerful benefit from the actions of government, while ordinary people are left without a voice. Legislation is written by the corporations who will benefit and law-makers are so busy raising campaign funds that they don't have time to read and think about the bills before voting. And the rich and powerful really like it this way.

I'm so glad that a majority of voters didn't buy the trickle-down hoax this time.

 

Exactly.

The problem is not the size of the government, it's the morality (and level of oversight/checkability) of the government.

I'm a socialist, I don't think anyone should go hungry or not be able to get a medical procedure or not be able to have a roof over their heads. But beyond making sure that everyone is provided for, I don't believe in a government that does the things ours does, I don't agree with how our welfare is done, I don't agree with corporate welfare or bailouts, etc. I believe in libertarian ideals so far as not having victimless crimes and that sort of thing, where libertarians fall off the truck is when they pretend they're as island. No one is single-handedly responsible for what they have, though "libertarians" talk about it as though it's just because they wanted and worked for something, that they have it -- and welfare is just going to people who are too lazy or stupid to have done the same thing.

Basically both sides are fucking idiots, with a few good ideas.

 

Exploding costs are a result of less money circulating in order to keep volume up. Money doesn't circulate because citizens protect their money. Protect from what you ask???? The government. Higher taxes do not mean higher tax revenue. We need our money to pump it into the economy, increase volume for goods, that keeps prices down, increase jobs to meet supply, creates more employed workers, generates tax income at a reasonable rate, results in government happy with their revenue.

 

What you say bears no resemblance to reality. The party has no moderates any more. McCain was once sort of moderate, but he went way to the right during his campaign and has stayed there.

Who in the GOP has a problem-solving attitude toward climate change, for instance?

 

You mean renewable energy? Right? Less oil consumption, less CO2 gases. And then we won't have warming. You think that's the solution? There was no GOP during the ice ages, and those climate changes occured.

 

I'm sorry, but none of what you said makes any sense. There's low demand for goods because the middle class has no money to spend, and that's not because of taxes, which are lower now than at any point in the last 30 years.

 

Well, okay. I've been trying to give you a positive rep for actually conversing but I had given out too much already. However, I find it funny that you call me a hypocrite meanwhile you claim to believe in personal freedom, yet openly support Barrack Obama (one of the biggest violators of freedom since Nixon.) I'm not the hypocrite, I believe in my principles.

But I am sorry for being an asshole about it. I don't know if you recall but we were both attacking each other harshly on the first topic, which is probably why you put me on your ignore list to begin with. Also, you gave me the first negative rep saying I contribute nothing to society, so don't act like I abruptly yelled at you.

 

So, you can't think of one Republican who has a solution for climate change? So, you must be one of those head-in-the-sand deniers of science, I guess. I didn't think there were any left.

 

Don't bother trying to explain reality to her. "She has her own truth", reality is just someone else's opinion.

"It's easier to fool someone, than to convince them that they've been fooled."

Notice that LSD ignored my responses to his statement. he doesn't have anything but "his truth" also.

 

Umm yeah but the everyday American is making exactly what he was 30 years ago, and our money's worth a lot less!!! Why? Printing, borrowing and SPENDING.

 

I didn't get around to your statement yet. I've read it, but I didn't sleep last night and I'm in no state right now to chop it up and respond to everything individually. I'll do it later when I get a few hours of sleep.