Congress to Censor Hip Forums!!!

Dunno if this has been said, but at my school You are not allowed to use games or forums, and I think this qualifies as a forum and is already not allowed for us to go there. And my school as a little school library and im sure those computer don't allow it either

 

The problem isn't if a kid sees a nipple or an uncensored scrotum. When I was at school, we saw a video of an erect penis ejaculating in sex ed. That sort of thing isn't shown EVER on mainstream tv, at least in the UK, and if a kid searched for 'ejaculation' on the internet at school I'm 100% certain the page would be blocked. Why is it wrong to see that on the internet/TV instead of a video in a classroom? Yeah, everyone giggled. We didn't start whopping our dicks out and jacking off in the middle of the class. No-one murdered anyone. It's a part of life, and I'd rather my kids know about it and be curious about it, than for someone to mention it and then deny it's existance.

The truth is, aside from the obvious distraction debate, the reason we censor things is because the world is so fucked up.. and this fucked up world isn't fucked up just because someone saw it happen on the internet/on the tv. I'm not saying things should or shouldn't be censored. All I'm saying is censoring things isn't likely to make the world a better place, or kid's lives any easier.

As for brainwashing, it occurs when kids or adults are repeatedly told "this is right, this is wrong", "this is how you should live, this is how you shouldn't live", "these people are bad, these people are good". If bananas were just introduced to a country, and on the news every night they say "bananas are poisonous", "man dies from eating 4 bananas", people are going to stop eating bananas. If on the news every night they say, "we are fighting for freedom", people are going to believe that and be much less likely to question it. The people that disagree will be put in their place by other people who built their trust and respect on that so-called fact. That's group mentality for you. The world was flat once.

Ok, so we learn stuff in school, find a specialised subject, go to college, university, get a doctorate/degree/whatever. I think many people don't even ask the question "What is it all for?", they just do it because they're told it's right, they'll get more respect, they'll live happier lives.. but the real answer is MONEY. We go to school and learn a pre-set curriculum because it will ultimately increase the wealth of our country. They don't teach us THAT in school though. Neither do they teach us how to work things out for ourselves. That could be the result a badly thought out education system, or it could be something more pre-meditated, but the end result is the same : a majority of people will go through their lives letting the powers that be ditacte normality to them, and see that as right, which results in a few million outcasts who are made to think they're freaks because they don't think like the majority. Said "freaks" will probably then feel more at home outside of the money making concrete comfort machine, for obvious reasons.

 

What I dont really understand is that alot of "older people" think that "kids" are unable to take care of themselves, and that they should be protected by any means possible, so what happends is that the freedom of the kids for doing things is taken away because the "older people" think it is bad, mostly because they sucked at doing something similair at that age.
Well congratulations, regulations all over the fucking place, happy now?

I think that's brainwashing... not allowing kids to find stuff out on their own, and forbid them doing absolutely normal things, just because they have a age lower then your own, yeah what a wonderfull world.

Peace

 

Um, I'm pretty new at this so maybe someone else has already addressed this issue, but not everyone has a computer at home and many of those who do are facing a similar situation, i.e., parental blocking of 'unsuitable' sites. If they can't get information/contact here (or elsewhere) at the library or at school and they are, for whatever reason, not sufficiently 'mainstream' in their innermost thoughts, what then? I know from first hand experience how that feels; it is NOT fun and even if the kid doesn't go Columbine it may take them years to find their people. Some neighborhoods and social groupings are VERY exclusive and controlling... 'for our own good' of course...

 

Well said Senor Stone

 

Our school HAVE ALREADY blocked hippy.com, hipforums, myspace, and even many, many private org sites and even many of the RELIGIOUS sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Outrageous. We have to stop them.

 

What network software do they use at your school?
Might have a mod for you

 

I've been part of this site for quite a while, and I'm aware of what is and isn't on this site. By being as condescending as you are, Skip, it's more evident that your opinion that hipforums is somehow holier than thou above what else is available online is more close minded on your end then on mine. I think that it's great that there are forums like Birth Control and such, I absolutely agree that there is some value to certain forums. My arguement is simply that the site as a whole may not be suitable for kids, and certainly not suitable to be accessed during the school day, that's it.

I may not post in every forum, but I do frequent a few of the forums. If I thought that poorly of hipforums, I wouldn't be here as much as I am. Again, posting sites don't contribute to a student's school day, so in that aspect alone (the dozenth time I've posted this in these forums) I don't think it's appropriate for kids to waste time posting in some website during the school day. That's it.

Sorry you see it that way. I think the only person who's truly insulted is you.

Clearly I don't. But online is easier access.

Again, my problem isn't with THIS SITE. While kids are in school, their focus should be school. If there comes a time where kids are enrolled in a curriculum that involves them spending time posting at hipforums and myspace and such and it's still being banned, then I'll absolutely side with you. If there are gay teenagers who need a place to turn to, there are dozens of places they can INCLUDING here, but is it ABSOLUTELY necessary to access this site during the school day, or is it possible that they can wait until after 3 pm?

 

As a parent, I have to put in my two cents. My kids are homeschooled, and are really too young for this site; my oldest is just beginning to learn internet skills and safety now.

But I do feel the need to mention that what first brought me to the hipforums was researching the drug war and it's effects, and marijuana laws in particular, for the purposes of fulfilling my responsibility as a parent to talk to my kids about drugs, as well as the state education requirements for drug education as a homeschooler. (The state can regulate subject matter, but not content.) It was actually Hippyland I came to first, and was directed to the forums from there. Through Hippyland and the forums I was able to discover important educational websites such as ChangeTheClimate.org and Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. Reading the posts of people with experience with marijuana and other drugs has taught me a lot about the issues surrounding drug use and prohibition, whether I agree with them or not on every issue is irrelevant.

In short, this site has been absolutely crucial to me in educating myself about drugs and drug laws, so that I could in turn educate my child. In fact, I believe when I first joined the forums I recall signing a guestbook or otherwise leaving a comment for Skip stating that this site is a resource I'd want my son to have when he is old enough to begin expanding his education on drugs and drug laws, and on activism in general.

Drug education does not mean parroting the DARE program. In fact, the more I learn about drugs and the drug war, and the more I learn about education in general, the less I like the DARE program. Do I think the use of this site might be most beneficial with parent or teacher supervision, guidance, and discussion? Yes I do. Do I think that it is a replacement for such discussion? No I do not. But I do strongly believe that students should be allowed access to it, for just the reasons stated above.

Socialization and goofing off do have their place here, and I am grateful for that aspect as well. But there is so much more to the Hip Forums than that, and the political, activist, and drug forums I feel do have important educational merit, even though - no, especially because they promote ideas not common to the mainstream.

That is my opinion as a parent and an educator, and I'm standing by it.

 

Skip,


What you've helped to create here is a living social environment that a child can wander through and explore.

Here, in their wandering explorations they can meet and converse with Wandering Turnips and Butter Cups.

Exploration triggers far more powerful cognitive associations with deeper more meaningful life-long significance than anything that can be achieved by force-feeding institutions.

Institutionalizing innocent children suffocates their natural spontaneous perfection, and perpetuates a culture of repression, and repressed people are the most dangerous people on earth.

EVERY single forum here offers a child an opportunity to explore and discover healthier and more wholistic views of human life, sex and death, and helps to undermine the institutionalized forces of repression.

No wonder Congress and the schools feel threatened.

 

Protecting kids is not an excuse for limiting freedom, freedom should be preserved and protected even if it harms kids. The function of government is to protect ppl's freedom, not to "protect" the kids' mind from true things and impose gov propaganda of what is right and wrong.

 

m6m, great post!

As a naturist, I must say i also take offense to the advocation of removing of all images of nudity from public access. And as an artist, I would have to ask, would that include works like Michaelangelo's David. Gaugin's Spirit of the Dead Watching, Boticelli's Birth of Venus and countless great works of art? What about images of nursing mothers? Who would make the distinction between art, education and "offensive" nudity?

The very "offensiveness" of nudity has its roots in religious dogma. Not all religions of the world abhor the human body (as well you should know, as a Pagan, Cerridwen.) The US government is supposed to maintain a "wall of separation" between Church and State; it does not have the authority to pass laws based solely on religious dogma, regardless of how popular those views may be.

The banning of actual public nudity may have it's practical reasons, but the image of a nude body is harmless. If we were to ban these images from puclic internet access sites such as libraries, then what would be the next step? Ripping them out of the books? Blue-dotting great paintings in galleries? Forcing nursing mothers back into the closet? I believe the human body is sacred. I say "You can't take this away from me. You have no right."

As for parents who are afraid that their children may have access to images they don't want them to see, I say, then let them act like responsible parents and take steps themselves to prevent their children from seeing them. Again I say, parenting is for parents, not governments. If some parents can't or won't take that responsibility, that is still the parents fault or problem, not the government's.

There is no way, no way the government can justify a ban like this. It violates some of our most dearly held rights, and no amount of spin-doctoring or double-talk can erase that fact.

 

Protecting kids is the right and responsibility of parents/legal guardians. When the government usurps that right & responsibility from the parents, it harms parents and kids alike.

 

What you fail to realize, and I've said this before to others, is that the constitution(or is it declaration of independance?) is worded very carefully. It is said that we, as people, have certain inalienable rights. These rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is ordered as so with a very specific intent, and that intent is priority. The function of the government is not to protect peoples liberty, or freedom as you put it, but instead to uphold this declaration and protect peoples three inalienable rights.

After much thought, I've decided my personal stance on the matter:

While I do not think a child posting in somewhere like Random Thoughts would ever be relevant to any classroom activity, or school appropriate for that matter, I do recognize that many, various portions of this site can be very helpful to children in school. Science and technology, travel, and philosophy and religion, are all great tools to any child writing a paper based on any one of those topics. Obviously there are more but those are the three predominant examples in my opinion. Not to mention countless other forums that are based on such topics.

What this is, is an alleviation of personal repsonsibility on the side of the teachers. Instead of them having to actually do something while in the library with their class, it's easier to just get rid of the "problem". However the problem is not that these children have access to these sites, at all. The problem is that they're not being looked after by those people that are given the responsibility of doing so for those allotted time periods.

Instead of removing some very useful tools from across the internet, the government should be reforming the school system and the requirements of teachers to actively participate with their students. If some kid wants to go against the teacher and get on myspace, which has NO redeaming educational value itself, he should be allowed that opportunity to fuck up and face the consequences of his actions. Needless to say I do not feel that violating free speach is the only disservice that will be done by passing such a bill. I think it will certainly hinder the growth and experience of the children as well as further remove responsibility of teachers, who are, for the most part, already far too removed from the students they are teaching.

 

The problem is not that either parents, teachers, or students are irresponsible, the problem is that inspite of grandstanding and trumpeting "no child left behind", our government quite simply does not value the education of American children. They value the production of numbers (grades and attendance records) that can be juggled in order to manipulate the distribution of funds.

Most teachers are not able to give their students anywhere near the individual attention they need and deserve, because their classrooms are over-crowded and underfunded, and many teachers are not able to get training they need to stay current in their field, and so may not be computer-savvy or may be relying on outdated modes of teaching. If America truly valued the education of its children, then not only would the schools embrace more flexible, child-centered models of teaching and evaluation (standardized tests only work for standardized children) but education would rank much higher in priority when it came to distributing funds than the already bloated military and corporate subsidies for swollen, unethical companies with profits in the billions. Much has already been said about bombers and bake sales; perhaps it bears repeating until we really "grok" it. I do not think, at present, that government spending in any way represents real American values.

Regarding the accusation that myspace has absolutely no redeeming eduational value, I'll have to disagree with that too, although I concede that, like this site, that value is frequently not utilized. My space has a great deal of lesser known music available; it also a very popular place for mail artists to trade work or ATC's (artist trading cards, or miniature works of art, frequently altered art) both of which could be of value to the music or art student wishing to expose themselves to new artists. (I'm an artist on myspace, but have been so busy opening the shop here that none of my work is up yet there.) Furthermore, if I recall, shortly after I joined Tom posted a bulletin regarding political groups using myspace for furthering their causes. This could have a great deal of value to a student interested in politics, activism, and current events. There are also many homeschoolers who network via myspace, as well as WAHMs and other entrepreneurs looking to make new business contacts. Perhaps if, rather than banning it, parents and teachers were to draw attention to its merits beyond socializing (which is very important for teens in and of itself) they might be more willing to discover and make use of the site's lesser-known potentials.