Communes That Succeeded

I totally missed this post before...

I don't understand what your point to even saying this was...

I am sitting here on a computer, on high speed internet with a wireless network that covers most of the propert, with satellite tv (not only color, but also projection) sitting beside me, another tv upstairs, hot and cold running water... so obviously (or it should be anyway) I am not (and have not ever) advocating getting rid of technology in any way shape or form....

The 'normal world' that I was referring to, is the people, who waste their time (and others) looking for flaws in everything as an excuse to not do anything worthwhile, while ignoring those things that truly do need to be changed and could be if they would just start. Those who follow others blindly as they stumble through life, and yet find any excuse not to walk on their own.... Those who think that they will find the situation they want without ever putting out any effort...

The normal world... babylon... The place that says its okay for a child molester to live just down the street from you.... the place that says its okay to hate on people because of their skin or their gender, but it isn't okay to hate on the haters... The place that puts more importance on appearance then on substance...

 

Amen. N. America has what? 400 million people. You'd think, especially with this economy people would be banging down your door. I think we're all too programmed to live the nuclear lifestyle partly engineered by local and fed.government's and multinationals. Their utilitarian design. A self sustaining community doesn't pay as much in individual taxes or utilities. Doesnt buy all the goods and services as the 'normal' property owner citizen. LOL We've had this conversation before.

But those are the foundation of any IC. Aren’t they? Do you think people are looking for a direction? A purpose? Look at organized religion. Billions of believers, followers. An IC should be a kingdom on Earth with lofty goals and plans to succeed for generations. People want direction. Some are leaders. Some followers. Who wants to commit to an IC that doesn’t have a purpose or reason to believe in. You got to sell your IC. Saying ‘come camp on my land and help with chores and be free’ will be fun for awhile but would lead to boredom or stagnation. Cant be wishy washy. People want goals, structure and some security.
Western civilization as we’re living it is at a turning point. Fleeting employment, shaky industry, voodoo economics, and untrustworthy governments is causing people to question and wonder if there is a better way to live and raise their families..
I want a higher purpose, today’s worldly life isn’t really apparent. Religion is all in the head.imo People want a tangible, physical direction and purpose. Everyone asks their selves, What am I doing? Where am I going? An IC should give people the freedom from 9-5 work, the rat race. Kinda gone on a rant hope it was somewhat coherent. The laptop i use sucks. Not forum typing friendly.lol

 

Why would I try to sell it? Someone who needs to be sold on the idea of living in the country amongst friends away from the bullshit and games, isn't the type of person I want around... What's next, 'sell' them each morning on what jobs need to be done the most?

The type of people I want are the ones who are going to look around and see something that needs to be done and do it.... not the type who are going to come find me and ask me if they should...

I get so bitchy about this whole thing...

I really don't understand what the confusion is over it all... I understand how it can be made to be complicated... I just don't understand why...

I have land... If someone wants to live on it, build their own home and live their life in a balanced, sustainable fashion, it's here... As long as they aren't the predatory type person...

Vegetarian, meat lover, black, white or green, male, female or somewhere between or otherwise, smoker or non smoker, old or young (legal)... I really don't give a flying fuck... why should I? I don't want anyone telling me that I can or can't do (or be) those things, why would I want to tell someone else it?

You want someone to lead or follow you through life? This isn't the place for you... You want to walk beside others... then it may be...

 

ChronicTom, There's nothing particularly complicated about what I wrote. I have said that quite a few people seem to think that communal living is about rejecting society, dropping out, etc. Earlier in this thread, somebody talked about getting off of the grid.

Hey, for those people who want to do those things, fine...go ahead on and do it. I believe I mentioned that I lived with a girl in Oregon who had the goal of living as far out in the country as possible, growing all her own food, no TV, etc. I think those are truly wonderful goals...for other people. I found that I missed football games, movies, going out to dinner, concerts and a lot of the other things my friends were still doing.

However, I do see lots of advantages to living with other people who are nice, honest, friendly, kind, creative and so on. Where are those people? It would appear to me that it is on each of us who are interested to find them, join up with them, learn from what they are doing and do it somewhere else or whatever.

Most of that normal world you refer to...Babylon...doesn't approve of child molesters down the street, crystal meth labs, wife beaters and all the rest, but, the fact is, that stuff exists anyway.

Yes, there are plenty of people around who hate others because of their skin color, their race, gender, religion, sexual preference or whatever. I do the best that I can to not be one of those kind of people. As for "hating the haters," you can do that if you want to. A good friend of mine pointed out to me that when you hate somebody, you are the one who is carrying around the hate, and you are the one who is living with it.

The fact that some of us might find it in our hearts to love our fellow human beings, even the ones who are very tough to love, doesn't mean that we love or approve of what they do. It also doesn't mean that we choose to spend a lot of time with those folks. Sometimes, it is much better to love some people from a distance.

 

This is interesting. Why do religious communes tend to be the more successful? Look at the Amish. They've shunned most of the modern world and are pretty closed to outsiders yet very successful. They arent effected by a recession like we are.
Should an IC offer a greener grass?

I've read a lot of your stuff. Do you have a business plan?

 

They don't tend to be more successful, they attract more people... unless of course you consider giving your free will over to others as being successful...

As for the idea of an IC offering a greener grass... to the right people, the grass at any place will seem the greenest they have ever seen...

There seems to be some confusion here about something... An IC, in no way has to be open and welcoming to everybody who wanders along and is interested, or have to go out and actively try to sell people on joining with them... There are 7 billion people on the planet... I only want a dozen or so around here permanently and maybe that many more on a transient basis...

That gives me one hell of a lot of leeway doesn't it?

Do I have a business plan? Yeah...

Tomorrow, I eat my own food and sleep under my own roof...

 

ChronicTom, From what I can tell, nobody is suggesting that you open your doors and the rest of your life to "everybody who wanders along." From all that I can tell, you have some land somewhere in Canada, right?, and you'd like to find some nice, responsible people who would be willing to live on that land with you and contribute. I think that is a perfectly reasonable goal to have, and I hope you achieve it...although, I'm not a likely candidate.

How long have you had this as a goal? Are you actually attracting people who are interested in joining you on this land? If the answer is "no," why do you think it isn't happening?

 

I want to start a commune, but the only people that would be allowed to live there are my close friends, who also want to start a commune. We are like minded, yet we know each other and love each other well enough to accept any changes in philosophy over the years. We all have unifiying commonalities, but varied interests that would aid us in our survival. We all understand the hard work this is going to take. We are family, and i think we'll be successful. The only thing stopping us right now is capital to buy the land and get things in motion.

I really can't imagine any commune being successful where people come together because of a common vision, instead of common love. The vision may wear off after a few years, but when you're living with people you've already been friends with for 5, 10, even 15 years in some of our cases, the love never wears off.

I'm curious of the origins surrounding the long-running successful communes. How many of them were started by people that knew each other very well and spent years planning, and how many were started by maybe one or two leaders who gathered a group of strangers with a common vision

 

Hi Meliai.

I dont know? I've been with my sons mom for 15yrs and there's been a few stretches of nonlove. lol But the commitment carries us through.

 

Meliai, I think that living with people you already like and/or love is a great idea. What I also know to be true is that every person who is currently a friend of mine started off as a stranger. Over time and shared experiences, we became friends.

As you probably know, most communal living experiences start off with the best of intentions, and most of those situations turn out to be relatively short lived. Those communal groups/intentional communities that have made it from the 1960's (or before) to the present time have found ways to deal with all of the problems that come with living with other people, including having a group that is conducive to raising children.

I known some people who lived at the Farm in Tennessee and Twin Oaks in Virginiia. AlchemistGeorge's group in California looks pretty interesting also. Best wishes with your plans.

 

and people wonder why I get annoyed when people don't read what's already been written...

 

ChronicTom, Some "people" may wonder why you get annoyed. I don't wonder about it at all. Those people who succeed at living with others find that being tolerant and understanding works better than getting easily annoyed.

Best wishes!

 

You will find that most that are still around have very few of the original people involved in them. Some of the more popular ones have found ways to continue, that completely destroyed the point of them in the first place. You just need to read their current rules to find out what I mean.

Even starting it with long term friends is not a sure thing, but if you already have such a group, a quick way to find out is to simply share a home for a while.

But, your point itself is extremeley valid in that you don't want people who are strangers just suddenly appearing and expecting to be included along with those who have been a part of the group from the start...

Being open to those who seem like they may become friends is always a good thing though... You just need to watch who you actually allow around.

 

Some of those people who succeed are like that yes... more of those who fail are though...

Funny thing about this topic is that those who have 'tried it out' for a few months, suddenly become experts who are qualified to talk down to those who actually live it. I'll admit that's a bit better then those who have only read about it doing the same, but either fall into the category of being annoying.

I live this life and have an open offer to share it, and I will always have this... Do you know why? Because I don't tolerate those who are looking to remake things in their own image, or that think they will change to fit in with whats here...

I look for those who by their nature, need a place like this to get away from the majority of people due to their inability to deal with the bullshit that most consider normal.

 

Perhaps it appears that some are easily annoyed because one isn't privy to vast volumes of BS and misinformation being bandied about by self proclaimed experts.

Tom and I have expressed some mutual annoyances with each other but that doesn't change one iota the fact that he has a very good grasp on what it takes because unlike most, he's actually DOING it- and as such can speak with great authority on the topic of severing ties of dependence on the infrastructure.

I can tell you that hearing misinformation delivered with the authority of an expert over enough time will test the patience of even the most mellow soul. Tom does not mince words- TBH I personally find the frankness to be refreshing but a growing majority of people want to have things sugar coated which too often has the effect of transforming useful fact and observation into an attack.

My sense, from an non-expert, pedestrian viewpoint is that a survival situation likely works best when the truth is delivered bluntly and all involved agree to not let words get under their skin.... and everyone is willing to pull their weight and then some on an ongoing basis... for the good of everyone, not just themselves.

Feel free to skewer that Tom!

 

substance over style.... what a concept....

 

Quiet... you'll let the cat out of the bag... who put the cat IN the bag to begin with?

 

Stinkfoot & Others, I've run into that "substance over style" thing a lot, and I think it is pretty much bullshit. The idea that simply because a person has convinced themselves that the substance of what they are saying contains such heaviousity doesn't mean that the way they present what they are saying doesn't matter. It most definitely does!

I often see people doing assholish things and justifying their actions by saying things like "Well, I just went ahead and did it because I thought it needed to be done." The fact that somebody may or may not be coming forth with great wisdom doesn't negate the importance of how they present what they think they know, are they open to hearing other viewpoints, etc.

For the record, I wish ChronicTom and everybody else the absolute best with their chosen lifestyles, and I think it's a good thing that he is willing to make his land available to others. What I have asked is how he is actually doing when it comes to succeeding at his agenda. Is he attracting people to live on his land? If the answer is "yes," how are they getting along and what problems are they encountering?

 

It does in as much as it will determine the likelihood that people will cooperate willingly versus feeling browbeaten into conforming to another person's construct.

In a group setting I've found that too often complete parity does not work. Look at how the military works- there is a hierarchy at work and the person most familiar with what is absolutely needed for all to survive needs to take charge and those with less wisdom in the ways often need to shut the fuck up and do their jobs. We all can sit comfortably behind our monitors and spout ideals that look so nice tra-la-la let's all just hold hands in a circle singing about peace until we get hungry...

What's for dinner?

There is some importance with the mode of presentation yes- but there's equal importance in developing a thick skin along with the ability to discern truth without its bearing on the situation diminishing because someone used a mean tone of voice and rough word choice. If it's my job to prepare food and I refused to do so because someone took a tone of voice with me... providing there is no one else to take up my slack, we all go hungry and it's NOT because of the tone invoked at me but my own decision to be all "butthurt" to the point of abandoning my responsibility to the group... and placing my own fragile ego above the survival interest of everyone else.

 

I've attracted many many many people over the years... ZERO that actually showed up to work...

I used to be the type of person think I should be...

I used to wander around with a smile on my face and the idea that everybody had something good to contribute...

You know what? That's the part that is bullshit... Not at the heart of it... I will always believe people have the potential to be honest and open and forthright and contribute... but I also know for a fact, that just because people have something to contribute, doesn't mean they will.

Most would rather either suck others down to their level or just try to knock the legs out from under them to watch them squirm.

The reason I think this is such an important issue around IC's communes and such, is because it doesn't matter a single bit about how much you preach happy happy joy joy when the next person who walks around the corner is carrying a big fucking stick...

I wonder what most people would choose when that person walks around the corner with that stick... someone like me was standing in between him and the ones they love, or someone like who wants to give them a flower and hope it soothes their soul?

Once I take the stick away from him and educate him in politeness, I'll gladly let him pass so you can hand him a flower... If he still wants to of course...

The first time I tried to start this, I did it with a group of long term friends... I put my name on the paperwork, supplied most of the cash (or paper in leiu of) and we all agreed we were doing this... Nobody showed up, the deal fell through, I lost everything I owned... The second time, I set it up that anyone who wanted to invest money into it, could join up... many people said they wanted to, many said they would... nobody but me put anything real into it... The third time (this time), I did it myself, made sure that the only person that it was dependant on was me... and you know what???

I not only am not going to lose it... I don't have to worry about those in the world who would rather talk some more about doing it... I don't have to hope that someone else will join in... When they do, great, if they don't, I don't care...

The main problem I have encountered over the decade and a half that I have been working actively towards this, and the problems I have seen from growing up in the same sort of situation, and the problems that I have seen from reading and talking to others about the experiences they have had, all boil down to one simple fact...

The majority (to the tune of 99%) of people, don't want to live in the country, they want to live in the cities where they can go to bars and museums and movies and so forth or on the beach in year round sunbathing weather... They would rather bitch about spending 120% (not a typo) of their income just to survive another month partying... Out of the 1% left, 99% of them, want to live in the country, but they don't want to do the work (even though some may think they do until they get there)... out of the 1% of those that are left, most are out in the country already building and living their life...

I get up in the morning and I do the things that need to be done, regardless of who is around to help me or not... because that is what it takes to succeed... not everyone sitting around trying to come to agreements on what needs to be done...

If you want to sit and talk about it while work can be done... then stay in babylon and perhaps enter politics... they love to talk about doing things...

If you want to do... then DO...