Yes, but there's reason to not like her policies or her personally. I don't think there would be the same level of resistance to, for example, Elizabeth Warren.
How can it be two different things? As if your policies have nothing whatever to do with who you are as a person. "Oh, it's my policy to gas the jews. But don't judge me too harshly on a personal level." Anyway, the secret service says her personality sucks, and I trust them before I trust her any day.
I am in no way saying they are not two different things. It just so happens that she sucks on both levels Her policies suck Her personality sucks too
When we question a candidate's polices or their fitness to hold office, we look at what they intend to do with the power inherent in that office. As President what direction does that candidate want to take the country. What are their views on immigration, taxes, gun laws, etc. When we look at candidate's personality we should only look at those aspects that that impact on the office they intend to hold and weight any flaws they may have with the positive outcomes they achieve. Was JFK a womanizer? Absolutely. Did he lie to the public? Yes. Was he narcissistic? Yes. Was LBJ a womanizer? Absolutely. Did he lie to the public? Yes. Was he narcissistic? Yes. Was FDR a womanizer? Absolutely. Did he lie to the public? Yes. Was he narcissistic? Yes. All great Presidents. Everyone has character flaws. Elizabeth Warren has not been in the lime light to the extent that Hillary has. Wait until the spotlight focuses on her and then watch the allegations fly. It's already started.
Yeah, LBJ, great president. :dizzy2: Fact is, your personality will influence your policy making, for good or for ill. Do I think JFK, FDR, or LBJ made all the right decisions at all the right times in all the right ways? No, I don't. Do I think they made errors because of their personalities? Yes, I do. Do I think Hillary Clinton's horrible policies reflect upon her personality? Yes, I do. JFK was a womanizer. So what would his stance on Bill Clinton's cheating have been? Would he have gone easy on him, and would he have been right to do so? If you consistently have shitty policies and your public face is a smile and a handshake, it makes you all the more disgusting personally. And contrariwise, if you make good decisions and your public face is Satanic, there is good reason to be very wary of the motivations behind your policies. But the personality and the policy are not separate.
So Newbie, unfocused, wiz, and Meliai who are you voting for if it comes down to Trump and Clinton? Or will you just throw your vote away?
Voters have a right to vote on any basis they choose. I agree though that the outcomes of a presidency should weigh more heavily than how you feel personally about a candidate. I see in HRC a corrupt, power hungry, war hungry tyrant who will do anything, including tampering with elections, to seize power. I'm sure there will be plenty of mud slung at EW, especially if she is in VP or cabinet consideration. I'm sure there may be even be factually accurate things said about her that could make her look bad. I don't think the negative impression that I have of HRC is a product principally of opposition smear.
Trump. And I've never voted for a republican before. My vote will be irrelevant, because I'm not in a swing state. Let me be clear that I think that Trump is a con man, a demagogue, and loud-mouthed bully. To my knowledge, I am opposed to every single one of his policy positions. I can only take solace in the hope that, if he were to become president, he could be relied upon to renege on all of his campaign promises. I simply see HRC as the greater evil. The primary benefit of a Trump presidency would be that the banks and the DNC would get a slap in the face. The only way to get the DNC to cut the shit, run honest primaries, and not take democratic voters' votes for granted is to show them that voters will punish them for this type of crap.
As I've already said, I don't know if I will vote for HC if she is the nominee but I can say for sure that I won't vote for Trump.
I will vote third party, Jill Stein to be exact. I voted for her in 2012 as well. I actually think I mentioned very early in this thread, before I knew much about Bernie even, that I never planned to vote for a Democrat or Republican again unless a special candidate came along and I felt Bernie was that candidate So since it looks like he will not be getting the nomination, barring unusual circumstances, i will be continuing my tradition of supporting a third party. I have the luxury of not living in a swing state. My vote for a Democrat will always be drowned out by the sea of red in my state. And I feel like the only way my vote would ever count is for a third party, so why wouldnt I? I'll admit I probably would have a different answer if I lived in a swing state.
Lie: Landed under sniper fire in Bosnia. Truth: Casually exited plane with Chelsea by her side, greeted military members, then greeted an entire class of school children... shaking hands, taking pictures and signing paraphenalia. Lie: Chelsea was jogging around Twin Towers on 9/11. Truth: Chelsea was sleeping at a friends place at quite a safe distance away from ground zero. Lie: Bernie voted against auto bailout. Truth: Bernie voted for auto bailout, voted against TARP (which had no provisions for auto bailout when he voted, but later was used for the bailout.) Sidenote: Hillary voted for TARP (which was initially solely about bailing out the banks). Lie: Her private server was approved. Truth: She never asked for or received approval. Lie: She is a progressive. Truth: Who knows, she has claimed to be progressive and moderate/centrist... within a month of each other. Lie: She has always been with LGBTQ. Truth: She didn't support same-sex marriage until a few years ago. Lie: She hasn't been approached for questioning and would answer any inquiries if she were approached. Truth: She was approached and both her and most of her staff denied giving interviews. Lie: Doesn't know where Sanders was when she tried to get health care in '93/'94. Truth: He stood with her on a stage during a speech about it, also she sent him a personally signed photo of them discussing it to thank him for all his work on it. I'mma stop there, but let me know if you'd like more.
Kick, Memories have been shown to be unreliable by many scientific tests. But keep in mind that sniper fire can be directed at an airplane before it lands. I have a nephew who flew C130s and came under sniper fire repeatedly before making landings in the Middle East. But he was able to calmly deplane as the fire had always stopped at the end of his taxi run. Yes, this is a total lie concocted by Dick Morris and his wife, Eileen McGann. This is an old one that has been debunked many times. A little more complicated. "It's pretty clear that the auto rescue was a live subject at the time, and there was widespread concern that TARP funds might be used for the auto industry. TARP was unquestionably a bank bailout bill, but it's hard to sustain an argument that no one at the time envisioned it being used to rescue the auto industry too." ~ Mother Jones It can be argued that, in part, he voted against funds that were widely considered to be partially used to bail out the auto industry. No big deal here. It depends on what you mean by approved. "use by government officials of personal email for government business is permissible under the Federal Records Act," Colin Powell also used a private email server during his tenure as Secretary of State. "The report found that while dozens of State Department employees used personal email accounts periodically over the years, including Ms. Mills and Mr. Sullivan, only three officials were found to have used it “exclusively” for day-to-day operations: Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Powell, and Jonathan Scott Gration, who was ambassador to Kenya from 2011 to 2012. Department officials never directly told Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Powell that they needed to end their use of personal email, the report found, but in Mr. Gration’s case, they did. In 2011, officials warned him that he was not authorized to use personal email for government business in Kenya. He continued doing so, and the department initiated disciplinary action over “his failure to follow these directions” and several other undisclosed infractions, the report said. He resigned in 2012 before any action was taken. Secretary of State John Kerry also acknowledged to the inspector general that he had used a personal account at times, but “began primarily using his department email account to conduct official business.” ~ The New York Times (my bold) Opinion on your part. Well you single out gay marriage which is not the whole issue, and always is a long time. She is using the term as an adverb of frequency, obviously no one has "always" supported LBGT rights as that would stretch back to their birth. So she has supported the LGBT community for awhile, at least back to 1999, but her views on gay marriage have changed, as they have for much of the nation. I don't know what this one is about and I'm not looking it up. Who gives a rat's ass anyway. Jesus Christ, is this all you can do? Pull shit out of context over and over again? Yeah, they appeared together on stage, they talked about health care, sure, big deal. He did not support her or Bill's Clinton health care initiative. So in the end, I'm sure you can find that Hillary Clinton has lied on some occasions, but not about anything that really matters, all politicians lie from time to time, everyone lies from time to time, (except maybe you)....big deal. Nothing here. Tempest in a teapot.
So in regards to health care, same ol' story where Hillary misleads the public into thinking Bernie isn't supportive of any healthcare initiatives when in reality he has always supported single payer. If you recall very recently she came out and said Bernie wanted to dismantle Obamacare and take healthcare away from millions of Americans. Which was a dirty trick and honestly just insulting to the intelligence of anyone who believes in a single payer system.
We all know that, if you have been paying any attention at all you know that Bernie is for single payer, Hillary wants a gradual approach to health care reform. You are only misled if you don't know what the positions of these candidates are. Hillary has never said that Sanders "isn't supportive of any healthcare initiatives", she takes issue with how he would do it.
