Christian, Jews, or Muslims...Can you explain this?

Did Noah travel 16,460 miles to and from Austrailia to collect the koala and kangaroo? After the flood did he make a special trip to all the islands in the world with all the kinds that are found there now?

 

No.

 

How would they be transported?

 

You are assuming that the features of the pre-flood Earth are the same as the Earth after the flood and there is no reason to believe that is true.

 

Where did the kangaroo and koala come from?

 

And where is the evidence to the contrary?

 

LONDON -- Noah's Ark has been found on the Turkish-Iranian border, 32 kilometres from Mount Ararat, according to the leader of a team of scientists that has been investigating the site for six years.


The Turkish government is so convinced by the findings that, after years of intransigence, it has designated the site one of special archaeological interest and agreed to its excavation next summer.

The remote site contains a buried, ship-like object, resting an altitude of 2,300 metres. At 170 metres long and 45 metres wide, it conforms almost exactly to the 300 cubit by 50 cubit boat that God told Noah to build, according to Genesis 6 in the Bible.

On surrounding terrain, the American and Middle Eastern scientists have identified huge stones with holes carved at one end, which they believe are "drogue-stones," dragged behind ships in the ancient world to stabilise them. Radar soundings indicate unusual levels of iron-oxide distribution.

Salih Bayraktutan, head of geology at Turkey's Ataturk University, estimates the age of the 'vessel' at more than 100,000 years. "It is a man-made structure and for sure it is Noah's Ark." The site is directly below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Koran as the Ark's resting place.

David Fasold, an American shipwreck specialist with no religious affiliation, has led the investigation. He says subsurface radar surveys of the site have produced "very good pictures." "The radar imagery at about 25 metres down from the stern is so clear that you can count the floorboards between the walls."

He believes the team has found the fossilised remains of the upper deck and that the original reed substructure has disappeared. But the findings have infuriated the scores of Christian Ark-hunters who travel to Turkey, convinced the Ark will only be found on Mount Ararat.

Fasold, who calls himself an "Arkologist," also argues that it was not a great flood that pushed the Ark into the mountains. He says it was "an astronomical event causing a tectonic upheaval, a tidal bore causing gravitational pull in the ocean waters that forced the boat into the mountains."

Some of Fasold's team of geophysicists and geologists are reserving final judgement until the excavation and carbon-dating. But in a British TV series on the environment next month, team member Vendyl Jones, a Middle East archaeologist and inspiration for film character Indiana Jones, says it is "between maybe and probably" that they have found Noah's Ark.

End of article

Prologue: The Quranic verse detailing about the resting place of the Noah's Ark is found in The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 11,Verse 44. The verse says:

When the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water and O sky! withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

The 49th verse of the same Chapter says:

Such are some of the stories of the Unseen which We have revealed unto you: before this neither you nor your people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the end is for those who are righteous .

 

It kinda does. Given that I have not known any animal that has become extinct to grace the planet once more simply because the same kinds of animals are still with us. A Dodo is a 'kind of' bird, right? Is that going to come back sooner or later...maybe in a hundred years or so?

What does it involve then?

So, you are under the impression the world is only several thousand years old rather than millions upon millions? > <

 

Were is the evidence that you know what the Earth looked like pre-flood?

The truth is that scientists that tell you what the Earth has looked like for "billions" years do take into account the possible effects of a global flood.

 

Okay, one more time, if there is still a mated pair left, it doesn't matter how many existed before the flood and how many died in the flood they were not made extinct by the flood.

Simple inherent variations the kinds that were preserved.

No, the Earth is millions, if not billions of years old. It is just that life on the Earth is not millions or billions of years old, only about 50,000 years old.

 

I'm talking about if there isn't. Your reasoning is all the variations spring from a 'kind' over a few generations. I'm not a biologist or anything - but I think that is kinda impossible.

 

I'm not, that is kind of the reason behind taking the various kinds on the ark, so that the animals can be repopulated from those kinds.

The Russians using wild foxes were able within a couple of generations able to produce domesticated foxes, something that had never "existed" before. They just bred for traits that made them friendly to humans and viola, domesticated foxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1G2yZMUNUQ"]Russian Domesticated Foxes - YouTube

 

As you know, I'm not talking about a cosmetic behavioral change.
As you know, I'm talking about :
e.g
Humans (Homo sapiens) are primates of the family Hominidae, and the only living species of the genus Homo. They originated in Africa, where they reached anatomical modernity about 200,000 years ago and began to exhibit full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.
The human lineage diverged from the last common ancestor with its closest living relative, the chimpanzee, some five million years ago, evolving into the Australopithecines and eventually the genus Homo. The first Homo species to move out of Africa was Homo erectus, the African variety of which, together with Homo heidelbergensis, is considered to be the immediate ancestor of modern humans. Homo sapiens proceeded to colonize the continents, arriving in Eurasia 125,000-60,000 years ago, Australia around 40,000 years ago, the Americas around 15,000 years ago, and remote islands such as Hawaii, Easter Island, Madagascar, and New Zealand between the years AD 300 and 1280.

(Is that where you got your 50,000 years from? )

As you know, the domesticated fox you are referring to is part of the Canidae family: the biological family of carnivorous and omnivorous mammals that includes domestic dogs, wolves, foxes, jackals, coyotes, and many other lesser known extant and extinct dog-like mammals. A member of this family is called a canid (/ˈkeɪnɨd/). The Canidae family is divided into two tribes: Canini (related to wolves) and Vulpini (related to foxes). The two species of the basal Caninae are more primitive and do not fit into either tribe.

As has been mentioned: Even if one cuts out the variations in the species, it still ends up being roughly 2.4 million different species. And the basic species you propose were saved on the ark could not possibly evolve into the variations we have now during the 4356 years since the bible claims the flood happened. Not to mention the complete absence of any DNA evidence of a genetic 'bottleneck' even remotely in the vicinity of that date.

 

But that is basically what I'm talking about, cosmetic physical and behavioral changes. All the various changes in a "kind" are already there in that "kind" and can produce all variations of large and small, color and behavior.

I know what you are talking about, evolution but evolution has never taken place.

The Bible tells that the Heavens and the Earth were created in the beginning and there is no indication when that took place, whether millions or billions of years ago, so the Earth can be "billions" of years old. The Bible then talks about "days" of creation and since that last creative "day" of rest has lasted to the present those creative days could be 7000 years or more. Thus 7x7=49 or about 50,000 years.

Again you are talking about the classifications that science has divided the plants and animals into and that is useful for the study of plants and animals but for the flood the animals were divided by God to "kinds" not species. Each "kind" is capable though natural variation of producing several of what is called species by science, no evolution involved.

I don't know how you are getting your 2.4 million number but many "kinds" would not need to be on the ark because their ability to survive a year of water without being on the ark.

As for this DNA "bottleneck" you speak of, why would there be? You are assuming that evolution is taking place and that a new division of DNA would have to take place after the flood but the DNA of the various "kinds" were already there in the "kinds" that were saved and thus no DNA "bottleneck" occurred.

 

Noah's Ark
300 cubits by 50 by 30, approximately 137 by 23 by 14 meters (440 feet long, 73 feet wide, and 43 feet high)
Is that metaphorical?
Does 1 cubit equal 6000 feet (in your opinion)?

Patriarch Noah saves himself, his family, and a remnant of all the world's animals.
Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.
"I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you."

So that's 8 people of one kind.
I take it those 8 people managed to reintroduce (or introduce if you prefer) what we refer to as Chinese, European (etc) peoples ?
How did that happen?
How long did that take?

"All the various changes in a "kind" are already there in that "kind" and can produce all variations of large and small, color and behavior."

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation"

What's the difference?

Noah was 600 years old.
How many days is that?

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

And I, behold, I do bring the flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; every thing that is in the earth shall perish.

It's a rough estimate of the 'kinds' you refer to. Taking into consideration what we know now and not what was known then.

How many kinds of one thing or another (including plants) didn't need to be on the ark (apparently) even though God: I do bring the flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is in the earth shall perish?

Have you ever heard of 'fossil' 'carbon dating'?

 

latest fossil to be found. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57529153/100-million-year-old-fossilized-spider-attack-found/ 100million yr old spider and wasp.

 

One word: Koala

 

The actual size of the cubit used by Noah is unknown.

But the ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high. Conservatively calculating the cubit as 44.5 cm (17.5 in.) (some think the ancient cubit was nearer 56 or 61 cm), the ark measured 133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m (437 ft 6 in. × 72 ft 11 in. × 43 ft 9 in.). This gave the ark approximately 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) in gross volume. Internally strengthened by adding two floors, the three decks thus provided gave a total of about 8,900 sq m (96,000 sq ft) of space.

It happened by their having children.
As for how long,
Each woman has, on average, 3 daughters who reach adulthood, and get her girls on average at age 25
From the ark comes 3 woman of child-bearing age =3
25 years later: 3×3 young woman/ girls of next generation.
50 years later: 3x3x3
100 years later: 3 to the power of 5
200 years later: 3 to the power of 9 =19 683
350 years later: 3 to the power of 15 =14 348 907

500 years later: 3 to the power of 21=10 460 353 203 (More young woman and girls than there are people in the world now.)

I didn’t make these calculations, I stole them from the internet but they seem conservative enough to show an approximate time line.

I know that evolution can mean that some changes have taken place but that is not what is usually meant when the term evolution is used now a days, there is generally the thought that there is more change accomplished than can come from the natural variations of a kind.

That would be approximately 219,000 24hr days. In the days before the Flood people were closer to the perfection that was lost and after the Flood it seems other changes happened that seems to have reduced man’s lifespan to 70 or 80 and sometimes with great mightiness a little over a 100.

It has been estimated that between 35,000 and as few as 2,000 were needed but it has been estimated that the ark could hold as many as 50,000 or more, especially if the animals babies rather than adults.

I can’t say any more than I can say exactly how many were on the Ark.

Since the Earth may have been relatively flat before the flood, the flood waters may not have been very deep; not having to cover Mt. Everest, if such high mountains didn’t exist yet. Then if most of the flood waters were fresh water, many trees and plants may have survived the year under water but regardless many seeds could have survived and would have started to grow almost immediately after the flood.
“Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.
In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic, for example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.” (stolen from internet)

Yes, I have.

 

If I asked you when Noah built his ark what you would say?
If I asked you is it possible for humankind to alter from one race to another you would say?
If I asked you how long that would take - would it be the same answer as the first?
If the answer to the first question is 6000 years - is that years as we would define them today or a metaphorical idea of time?
If they are different then there is no consistency.
It's not fair to change the concept of time to suit what is being asked.
ALL humans do have a common ancestry and looked vaguely like each other - there was one 'kind'.
But the variation we see in humans today took a lot longer than 6000 years.
Personally, the time I use is always the same.
I don't think that is true with you.
Which is convenient for you.
The problem here is that you have to:
Alter the way biology works.
Imagine 8 people can gather thousands upon thousands of animals together, spread out over thousands upon thousands of miles - across separate continents.
6 people could populate the world with all it's various races.
We have to accept what occurred before could occur again with two animals.
We have not even touched on how all the is came to be here in the first place.
...well that's just the main points.
And if something doesn't quite fit, well: God helped them out - or, you have to interpret the bible in a certain way.
To me Genesis is very straight frwd - which is also the problem we have.
Crazy isn't it?

The good thing is many many people have strived to provide a better answer than the bible describes because of the bible - which isn't a bad thing, I guess.

So, the earth was possibly flat at the time.
So we might have had a 'flat earth'?



That seems legit...

I think what you stole contradicts what you have been saying, and ignores the quotes I stole:

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

And I, behold, I do bring the flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is in the earth shall perish.

Either: "two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark" or it didn't, and if it didn't where in Genesis does it explain that "Noah need make no provision".

 

Mt. Everest has been rising on average 2.4 in per year. Over a 4600 year time that would be about 800 feet putting Mt. Everest at 28,229ft at the time of the flood.