Che Guevara T-shirts

When Castro took over he was widely supported by the Cuban populace. He took violent measures merely to wipe out opposition and to secure power, not to stem a capitalist uprising.

Defeating the Bay of Pigs Invasion wouldn't have required the wave of oppression which followed Castro's coming to power.

 

His oposition were the "democratic" capitalists so he had to be sure that they whould not have contrarevolution suported by cia.

 

I don't see how that would have justified him killing and jailing thousands of people, including those who fought to bring him to power. That seems like the mindset of a paranoid and power hungry dictator.

You can't preemptively punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Using the same logic you could say that anyone who opposes George Bush could be used in a potential uprising so therefore they need to be imprisoned.

 

Changing society is different,you should fight fire with fire,that's what all people think but I don't think that way.

 

how about this tshirt?

http://proletarianthreads.com/tshirts/t128.html

 

I like Che too. He was a voice of freedom, he used violence, because peace sadly couldn't work in his situation. I have a shirt of his, but I don't really think I'm supporting some big fat guy, but that is a good question.

 

Nerthus that is a pretty cool shirt, do you have one

 

Why on God's Green Earth would you want a Che Guevara T- SHirt???? WTF?!?!

Don't you know what that man did? brilliant revolutionary or not, he did some horrible things that are unforgivable.

You might as well be wearing a Stalin t- shirt.

 

How about a Ron Paul T- shirt. Then you would look smart and well informed instead of a stupid hippy that doesn't know the atrocities of the man on his t- shirt. Sounds like a plan to me.

 

I want a shirt with Che, John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy on it.

 

Here's mine.

 

More

 

Why has no one pointed out what the Batista government did? They were just as violent and repressive (if not more that Castro), they took over control from a liberal government by force. They were corrupt and miliataristic. Che was a freedom fighter, he fought for the freedom of the masses. He used techniques that were harsh, but they were the same as those used against him and his troops (that's not an eye for an eye style justification, but you have to take that into account).

The US raped Latin America during the cold war, putting in place fascist dictators, all in the name of protecting people from communism. Che attempted to free them from such people. He had the support of the USSR. The US had the support of Mao in a lot of it's attempts to stop communism (as strange as that may seem, he helped them by curbing the vietcong rebels) and through Mao, poll pot. Che would never have had the resources needed were it not for the soviets.

I am greatly against the 'che-wear' clothing and such, it is mainly worn by incredibly pretentious people. But I also dislike the right wing propaganda that's taken over on this thread.

 

I am greatly against the 'che-wear' clothing and such, it is mainly worn by incredibly pretentious people. But I also dislike the right wing propaganda that's taken over on this thread.[/QUOTE]Like I've said I do wear a che shirt to sybolism revoltion. and yes I was at school and some kid said " oh yah thats the communist dude. I have a shirt of him." He probably wears the shirt because he thinks it looks cool.
Peace

 

Everyone knows Batista was bad. But why doubt that 50 years later, the regime wouldn't have evolved into a proper democracy like so many other countries?

You could look at Taiwan vs China in the 1950s, or South Korea vs. North Korea in the same period. Taiwan and South Korea were violent and repressive, corrupt and militaristic and supported by the US. But they evolved into peaceful, free, prosperous liberal democracies. Cuba hasn't evolved at all, it is a repressive dictatorship that ruined Cuba's economy, in fact it is probably worse off that it was when Castro took power. Cuba gone nowhere for half a century.

he enslaved the masses.

That is exactly the definition of eye for eye justification. Remember, it is 50 years later and you are still using the Batista regime as an excuse for why ordinary Cubans need a permit to access the internet and why no opposition newspapers or radio stations etc are allowed. Fifty years later!

Actually you need to read back a bit futher in Latin American history. Like many leftists you think the US created every problem everywhere. But Latin America had a very violent and unpleasant colonial history and had pretty nasty governments long before the US (or communism) came on the scene.

He enslaved them.

That is complete crap, Mao was the Vietnamese communists' biggest supporter.

TThe US fought Pol Pot. You have it completely backwards.

So we should blame the Soviets for this 50 year dictatorship.

Saying that Cuba is a tyrannical regime and a 50 year disaster is not right wing propaganda.

 

Ok, what I'd meant to say was that the US was forced to spend a time cooperating with Pol Pot. They then did fight him. (I was rather tired when I posted so I didn't quite have the facts straight, cheers for correcting me.)

I am not completely pro-Castro. I was trying to put a counterpoint to some of the points made. The CIA fucked up quite a few countries in Latin America for showing socialist tendencies and for trying to combat the fat cats in their countries. They then instated fascists who then committed atrocities. If I had the choice between an unstable socialist state and a violent fascist state, I know what I'd choose.

The point that the Batista government would have evolved into a democracy is a good one. Though there's quite a chance that under Raul, then Cuba will become more free. Not definite, but he has stated that he wishes to modernise cuba's economy and such.

Even though Cuba's not great by a long shot. Castro is still well liked in the country (amongst the working classes), it does have a far better health and education system than other countries in the west and if you had to live in a Communist Totalitarian state, you would choose Cuba wouldn't you? (before you mention it, that last point is meant to be humorous)

 

How about some "What Would Che Do?" bumper stickers, like in Tibet he would probably have some mass graves filled with the bodies of monks right about now.

 

Just saw an article in the NY Times about internet access in Cuba. Did you know that home internet access is FORBIDDEN? There is ONE internet cafe where cubans pay 1/3 of an average month's salary for ONE hour access. They are closley monitored by government watchdogs at the cafe. So when you talk about Castro's Cuba not being "that bad", consider if you were there, you wouldn't be able to even read this post!! Below if a photo of the cafe and below that a link to the article.




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/world/americas/06cuba.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=cuba+internet&st=nyt&oref=slogin

 

Yeah, it's really shocking that Cuba doesn't allow for basic freedoms, like the freedom of speech and information. That's typical of a nanny state type goverment.

 

I still don't think you have it right. Pol Pot was backed by China and North Vietnam and came to power by overthrowing a US backed government. If you're reading left wing websites they can be pretty confusing about this time period because they don't want to talk about it.

"Combating fat cats" is a very sanitised way of describing communism, a totalitarian ideology which has failed in every country it has been imposed on and which has resulted in economic ruin, mass murder of tens of millions, and total elimination of basic freedoms.

No, as I said before Latin America was not a nice place run by nice people before the US came around. Study Spanish colonialism if you want to learn the real history.

Its usually the opposite though, socialist states are very stable, whereas right wing states were unstable, often due to large communist guerilla movements which were fighting to impose a totalitarian ideology, backed by the USSR and other socialist states.

I hope you're right.

In fact its not great at all, its bad.

How can you know this in a country with no freedom of speech or assembly, no free press, no voting, and which has a giant, all pervasive security apparatus which persecutes any dissent?

Cuba's health care system is about equal to Costa Rica's, yet Costa Ricans are free people and enjoy significantly higher standards of living. It looks like Cubans gave up their freedom and got nothing.

Tough one... not many to choose from anymore! Its better than North Korea, but is it better than Vietnam or China? I don't think so! I'd take China or Vietnam.