Can Islam coexist with Peace?

Jonny, I am already registered with the nick Bulgarian

 

Wow. All of you ignorant, racist, uneducated people depress me. Can't burn crosses on black people's yards anymore, can't throw Jews in concentration camps, so you'll just turn your hatred against Muslims?

Sad.

You have absolutely no understanding of sociology, do you? Economic factors had a hell of a lot more to do with that than the religion of Islam. Where religion did factor in, it was the racism against Muslims that is to blame -- after years of prejudice, which compounded the economic issues (can't get a better job), they finally rose up. Are black people unable to coexist in peace with other races? I mean, look all those bloody revolutions they started (you know, uprising against slavemasters and freedom-fighters against colonial powers), and hell, the LA riots were only, what, a decade ago... Then again, I suppose hispanics are incapable of living in peace too, I mean, just look at all the turmoil that always seems to be happening in Central America..

OH WAIT, white Christians must also be incapable of coexisting in peace with anyone else -- hell, they go blow up women & doctors at abortion clinics, beat gays to death, persecute anyone who is not Christian... And how many thousands (millions?) of people did they kill in thier silly little crusades?

Y'all are spouting the most disgusting racist crap, sounding a little to the right of Hitler, yet you deign to call yourselves hippies? WTF????

 

dawn sky most of the people who think like me are arabs or north africans or pakistanis iranians somali are they all racists ?

and who are they racist against .

my family is multi-racial half white, half chinese but Im always called a racist by people like your self , because they are unable to disprove what I say about islam because what I say is true.

france has gone out of its way as has the rest of europe to welcome muslims, but they respond by riots and murder and suicide bombing .

you dont see the same level of violence from say the chinese they are a different race to europeans, but I havnt seen any chinese blowing themselves and hundreds of other people up because of racial discrimination .

I havnt seen a jihad of buddhists or hindus there is violence from other religions but nothing compared to islam .

if Im uneducated maybe you can disprove what I say or you could try to disprove what ali sina says about islam which is pretty much the same as me , hes iranian but he a racist according to you .

why dont you tell him hes a racist.

I know ayaan hirshi ali, the somali women who helped make the film submission with the late murdered theo van gogh ,has been called a racist lots of times , why dont you write her a letter telling her that she burns crosses in black peoples yards even tho she is a black person .

 

I have never said that islam is the only cause of wars in the world .

so bringing up other causes and trying to say that just because some other cause or group of people start wars too ,means that islam doesnt wont wash

the original question was could islam co-exist with peace , I dont think it is a religion that encourages peace as it has the concept of war to spread the religion and the aim of the religion is religous govement .

apart from the war and oppression directed against non muslims there is the oppression directed at sects in islam more muslims are killed by other muslims than by anyone else .

so even if everybody claimed to be muslim there would be war until one branch came out on top

 

Check out Yusuf Islams (Cat Stevens) website.

 

I remember yusef islam aka cat stevens calling for the death of salman rushdie,

he said that under islamic law rushdie should die and if he knew where he was he would tell people who would do him harm.

he was one of the main people who incited the rushdie affair .

and I remember him making threats on tv to people who wanted to make a film of the book satanic verses, so he is someone to look at if you wish to learn the effect of becoming a muslim .

hes a too bit gangster who pretends to be a man of peace, I think he should be in jail for incitement to murder but he was never charged , in fact no one was charged during the rushdie affair for anything as far as I know although hundreds were arrested , bookshops bombed people killed and rushdie has spent more than twenty years in hiding

he wont talk about his actions or his beliefs its against his forum rules, he has been asked to discuss islam by ali sina but hes happy to pump out the usual flim flam without being asked awkward questions .

since then he has had links to terrorist groups I believe he gave money to people involved in suicide bombing thats why he isnt allowed to visit isreal .

what he says about the rushdie affair paints him in a good light and because he wont allow his view to be challenged, people do not get a view of what he did or what he believes now .

he says now that he doesnt call for rushdies death because he at present lives in a non islamic state britain , but all his life he has worked to turn the uk and the rest of the world into a islamic state .

so he wants rushdie dead, but like say himmler or hitler in the 1920s he is not at present able to have killed the people he would like to have killed , but the fascism is there the intent is there .

if he wasnt a fascist he would have supported rushdies right to write a book with out fear of being killed .

if he had changed his views from the time of the rushdie affair he would say that under no circumstances should rushdie be killed or killed in any other future state .

thats not what hes saying

 

can somebody tell me what's goin on here, and what do you think ?..

 

Ive had a similar conversation with Ex-Yugoslavians about this whole situation.
You can look at it this way:
- You can find people who are trying to take over and dominate lands who do so 'in the name of 'Christianity' or God.
- You can find people doing the same in the name of Allah and Muhammed.
HOWEVER
The difference being that the Serbian paramilitary warlord is doing this IN SPITE of the Scriptures he is not following anyways.
Seriously, if you really could pin them down on this - they have no choice but to admit that its not 'Biblical' regardless of what they do.
THIS IS NOT THE CASE ...
.With the Jihadists. They are actually doing this BECAUSE they find it in their Scriptures and they really ARE following their religions teachings and if you could pin them down on it - they WILL show you a very very convincing argument FROM the Koran and Hadith.

Now.. Im telling you I am friends and aquaintences with with Muslims who are definately not happy about the Jihadists.
They are what you might call 'Secular Muslims' or maybe 'liberal, progressive type' Muslims.
Thats a whole another story in there too but I can tell you that I spent so much time being familiar with them and being with them that on occasion they forget Im a Christian.
During the attacks on the UK subways I never forget one turning to me and with the excitement of a fan seeing his team score goals says:
"Oh man.. did you hear today we got 'them' like TWICE hehehehe!!" and then suddenly realising in mid-gloat that I was the wrong person to be high-fiving.

If I thought for a second this was just an isolated case or some wacko type thing I promise I would not tell this 'as if' he represented modern secular Islam.
The problem is that this sort of thing is more and more appearing to be a very common thing.
Definately not the majority of moderate Muslims (but it IS for traditional ones) but I see and hear this sorta thing wayyyyy to often.

btw.. I cant help but notice how the Muslims really have a deep-seeded mentality of 'punishment' and 'reward'.
Its different than our more western christianity-based way of thinking in terms of fall and redemption.
Im not even talking about doctrines here - I just mean that comparison in terms of cultural 'thinking' or 'mentality'.

 

we have a couple of problems the main one being the one that dawn sky brought up, she thinks pretty much the way the TV tells her and is so narrow minded that she wont look at the facts or do her own research .

jihad war and violence and terrorism is in Islamic scripture as a commandment , non Muslims are looked on as second-class citizens in the classic Islamic state they are dhimmi who live in a sort of apartied .

Everything is done to encourage them to stop having different beliefs and become Muslims.

you have as of today top Islamic leaders saying that non Muslims are ritually unclean that you need to have a ritual bath if lets say you sit on a chair a non Muslim has sat on if you go on grand ayatollah sistani website he says that today he’s the top man in shia Islam.

In France they have been unable to get Muslims children to take swimming lessons for example because they don’t want to swim in unclean water that non Muslim French people have swam in or that girls have swam in .

They have been unable to teach the holocaust or enlightenment philosophy because the children riot or attack the teachers.

Where did those children get those ideas from and are they the sort of ideas you want if you want peace and peace on whose terms.

The riots targeted churches, and synagogues, and non Muslim cars and businesses with the idea of striking terror in the heart of non Muslims and driving them out of their own land.

If it was just that these people are oppressed why did they called imams to make pleas for the riots to stop why did the rioters shout Allah Akbar and attack sectarian targets.

And if you look around Europe and the rest of the world you will see the same process these riots are not happening by accident, its all part of a plan

 

There actually is a plan in the works. Yet you will have to read the Bible to discover it. God is allowing the Jews back into Israel to get the Islamic nations to attack them. He is doing this, to reveal to the world who He is. It may sound far out, but the whole story in in Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, 38, and 39. These chapters are prophecies. And if you read them, you will discover these events will happen in the latter years. Also, the Bible states that God is doing this for His Holy name, and not the Jews. God states that the Jews polluted His name where ever they wandered. After God defends the Jews from what appears to be these invading Islamic nations, the Jews will see who God is, and the Old Testament states they will look upon Him who they pireced, and they will ask Him where He received the wounds in His hands.
The latter part of the prophecy will be found in Zec. chapter 12.

 

This seems like the time to mention something (following post by an agnostic and a Theist heh).

I think I understand one of the basic underlying thinkings/feelings going on with the whole entire Jihad idea.
These French and Europe riots which are being exposed as, at the very least a 'loosely strategic' effort.
This also fits into the post by Campbell as far as theistic revelations etc...

Running deep and wide throughout the Muslim World and 'Worldview' is an 'insecurity' or a 'confidence issue'.
An 'Inferiority complex' as psychologists might call it.
There are already 'compensating' attitudes seen in the children who will not swim in 'unclean' waters and I know this has even gone past 'Ritually Unclean' to a very certain belief among Arabs that they are 'cleaner' people.
Anyways...
It seem increasingly certain to me that (generally) there is a thinking that, ultimately, to prove who is the One True God and to finally put to rest all doubt about Allah and his Messenger they WANT to test your theory Campbell.
If you get past all the political reasonings, accusations, talk of Hadith or non-stop positioning of their victim status or how they are being 'forced' to do these things by oppression.
Forget all of that... the real deep down 'thinking' is that this will prove out Allah is real and they have been right all along and finally all the world will see the One True Allah, proven for once and for all.

Now wait.. I know there people like Dawn Sky who are going to reply to the 'contrary' just because she thinks 'Something mean is being said about brown people .. so thats BaAad right'.

No, you have to understand that (generally) the entire 'concept' of how the Muslim and esp the Muslim Arab see this is DIFFERENT than how say a typical Christians, Buddhist, Hindu etc would see the world.
Islam is different in that it does indeed tie together both a spiritual and political and socio-economic mandate all in one.
So starting world war three with Israel does make sense as the ultimate 'apologetic' and proof of their Allah.

Havin said all that - I am honestly concerned about a certain segment of Christians out there who are displaying the same sort of thinking but in a sort of 'over confidence' way in which they almost 'hope' the Muslim world will try this and fail as we believe they will.
Now lets stick to the principles here. Just because we know an outcome might arrive after all - we are always obligated to constantly persue peace.
It might be true that we have foreknowledge that others will reject it but thats not our business.
Our business is to carry on as long as possible as best as possible and NEVER do we try and 'self fulfill' or 'speed up' anything unfortunate!

Anyways.. I would like to hear Johnny2mads commentary on this underlying mentality of Jihad which ultimately 'wants' to instigate an armeggedon for the very purpose of 'finally proving Allah'.
I think this IS the real heart of the matter?

 

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. ; )