Can Communism Ever Work?

this was not a structural error of communism/socialism itself . you did not read the previous posts, in which i reminded what should be well known to everybody who attended decent schools, that socialism was meant to actually be a system that rewarded the smartest, hardest-working ones, thus encouraging challenge and hard work, while 'real' communism goes beyond all this but it is only feasible as the next step after along work of mass education. and so far no socialist regime ever came near to building communism. you also appear to judge a page of history that you don't know if not from the vulgata of American propaganda which is not very objective. to be true, it is heavily, blatantly biased.

so i insist that your answer is arrogant, meaningless and coming from an illiterate of politics and history as you happen to be to your disgrace.

the soviet union started from the mid sixties, to allow farmers to do private enterprise in a controlled internal market and this did bring good results. farmers were happy to be free to sell their products at their own prices in distant markets inside the URSS. they capitalized on that opportunity that was not extended beyond agriculture.
in other words the russian interpreters of socialism had to surrender to the evidence that ol' Karl was right. people needs material incentives in order to work at their best. but it is perfectly possible to pay the most capable workers, teachers, engineers twice, three , ten times as much as their less productive colleagues in order to incourage and reward the best ones without betraying the idea of socialism.

the single commandment that really matters in socialism is:

THOU SHALT NOT OWN ANY MEANS OF PRODUCTION BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THE PEOPLE THY LORD.

where as means of production we not mean hammers, sickles, hoes and shovels but land or industrial plants. and before all , LABOR: people waged by private citizens. i think this point was quite obvious, but i pointed it out nevertheless, seen the painfully low level of your dialectic abilities.
is that so difficult to grasp? it is all there.

If you are saying that socialism countries like the URSS failed in incouraging their citizen enough to work harder than they did, i agree, because it is true. Not exclusively because of their incompetence but yes, they did fail in this, that attempt was made too late, in small scale, and finally they had all their resources drained by the perpetual struggle to build bigger arsenals. every generation in russia was told to sacrifice for the next one, but the results never came out.

If you come up and tell me that this happened because it is intrinsecal to socialism that there must be no incentives in work well this is plain wrong and i explained you why. Of course if you don't believe that men can't give 100% of their capabilities unless they have the opportunity to take over the whole business they work in and run it as their own. First of all, because all waged workers in capitalist countries never have one real chance to become themselves big rich enterpreneurs. Dont' even think to sell me this shit: you can't seriously say that an industry worker in the US works harder than his former-URSS peer because the yankee redneck aims to be one day the owner of the whole plant. He knows this is never going to happen. Most people never have a chance, the money, the guts and the abilities to play and win this game. So why should they be enthusiastic supporters of a capitalistic system that is closed to them ? And then, because a communist believes that in the human soul dwell higher feelings than just selfishness, and those high , noble forces must be increased and cultivated instead of being perpetually laughed at and ridiculised as usual in capitalism.

The Russian were on their road to build the better human society ever seen, but the whole experiment collapsed well before reaching satisfactory results. I understand that a failure is by no means good credentials for anything, but I also believe that in order to come to a definitive, valuable scientific answer,experiments must take place in controlled environments without external intrusions.

your cheap explaination about why we should take the very idea of communism and throw it down the bog without a second look does as much sense as the following parable:

-doktor Marx is doing an experiment into his laboratory.

-before the experiment comes to an end, the landlord, who is in opposition to doktor Marx's theories, kicks him out the laboratory 'cos he forgot to pay the rent, together with all his stills and beakers that get crushed on the asphalt.

-the next day on 'Scientific American' appears an article that says that doktor Marx's experiment failed badly thus proving that his theory was a total piece of crap, but omitting to say that the experiment didn't really fail, only it was aborted because of a mix of exotic errors and the work of an hostile saboteur.

what i really get is that you are so scared by this topic that you, like those before you IN HISTORY, made your childish attempt to abort it dragging the debate on trivial insults to divert the attention from real mature reasoning. don't fool yourself, you are not going to have the last word in this thread unless you actually persuade me that socialism and communism are wrong.

by the way you'd really make me a big gift freeing me from my communist beliefs, so i could finally relax, sit back and fully enjoy all the wonders of this perfect, flawless, fair, merciful, free, happy, modern, capitalistic world with along bright future, that for some obscure reason is so hated by those obnoxious commies .

 

jagerhans,

Please move away from your computer, stop surfing the Internet for Communist nonsense, and send me your money a.s.a.p.

A computer, the Internet, and money are all capitalist "inventions" and you should be able to do well without them in your little perfect world of communism.

Bye bye!

 

Honestly, jagerhosen, you're 35 years old and you still think "Communism" is the way to go? Jeez. Do you also believe in Father Christmas? The Easter bunny? Little green martians?

Lei è idiota!

 

the computer and internet were made from human desire
if the world was communist im sure some dick would have invented the computer
maybe the party would of left the cpu to itself but it would of been invented.

money is not a capitalist invention money has been around for centurys capitalisim became an ideology only in the 1500s capitalist exploit money
even the ussr had money.

 

Also if you belive communisim is not the way
what is?
coz freind capitalisim is not working is it.

 

Yes, you're right.

HUMAN DESIRE TO MAKE MONEY.

Ask Bill Gates.

 

You have this question wrong.

If you believe capitalism is NOT the way, then what is? Cuz, friend, communism is not working (see: Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea).

 

comrade stop answering this troll, he won't even give a look to what you write and will repeat over and over without style variations that since communism didn't work alright at first try it is out of question that it shall never possibly work, that in human nature the only resource that counts is the desire of making big money no matter what are the consequences, that since we have computers and stuff everything else going horribly wrong in the world is a worthless detail from the perspective of this superficial but selfish dude, and that if you have different goals from him (basing on the forum this gentleman dwells in it appears that his main interests other than money are penis size and jerking off, which explains sooo much of him) , well to him you are nothing but a bloody idiot, period. so why wasting time? just signal him to the moderator if he insults you too so we'll be free from him for some time.

btw: all eastern countries built computers, even crappy countries like Romania manufactured some, and they were ranging from mainframes to home computers based on CPUs that performed as their Western similars. Bad for Linux that the Soviet Union ceased existing just when it came out, I don't think they'd like so much running MS Windows(TM) on their irons... And people, linux was developed by one big man Torvalds that without even being a communist wrote the OS I am running now for FREE with utter satisfaction and did not ask one cent for his creature . This just to show that in human nature there is plenty of beautiful, positive, powerful, generous feelings and noble forces that apollo won't ever imagine from the bottom of the spiritual pit he is into.

 

blah blah blah apollo the same old debate please with respect fuck off....

 

Instead of being a benevolent proletarian dictatorship that would organize society for the good of the working class, the Soviet Russian government that emerged between the civil war and Lenin’s death in January 1924 resembled a fairly typical authoritarian bureaucratic state. In many ways, it was strangely reminiscent of the tsar’s government or Kerensky’s, with a ruling elite that operated through myriad agencies for its own benefit and was obsessed with maintaining its own political supremacy. Lenin’s promises in virtually every arena went unfulfilled.

His attempt to use socialist production methods to sustain Soviet Russia during the civil war, the so-called War Communism, was an utter fiasco that resulted in urban food shortages, rampant inflation, and mass famine among the peasantry. Lenin’s “attempt of transition to Communism,” as he put it, ended up requiring the Bolsheviks to embrace capitalism anew and seek emergency assistance from, of all places, their old antagonist, the United States.

In 1921, Lenin approved an economic revival program known as the New Economic Policy, which allowed for exactly the kind of free-market exchange and profit-making that the Bolsheviks had sworn to do away with. Similarly, when faced with the prospect of millions of starving Russians, the Bolshevik regime turned to the capitalist United States for aid.

As early as July 1921, the United States was furnishing $US61 million in food aide to the Soviets. By the following summer, the American Relief Administration (ARA) was feeding over 11 million Russians every day.

So, with all respect to you, Comrade Stalin Guevara, FUCK OFF YOURSELF.

 

By the way, Comrade Stalin Guevara, why is your mugshot "The Terminator"? Do you realize that you are using a "logo" from a capitalist movie shot in the world's most capitalist nation? By virtue of using this "Terminator" mugshot, you are in essence engaged in marketing -- another evil capitalist invention.

Comrade Stalin Guevara, are you a Closet Capitalist???

 

Apollo, sei un pollo .

 

jagerhans, sei un communist asshole.

 

:smilielol5:

 

Fuck sake jock,
this stuff again,
do you not think a Communist state would make movies?
because terminator or not i am Communist

Am i capitalist because i watch TV? or play the Computer?

 

go watch 'pulgasari' on google video: the kaiju (monster) movie made in N.Korea by order of Kim-il-dung , it is totally hilarious and a good proof of the craziness that struck that country long ago. out of joke, anticommunist fanatics always resort to this when they run short of dialectics resources, as if it were possible for a communist just pretending to live in a communist country and live accordingly. we live in a totally different world and must cope with that, in fact that stupid chicken full of wind and piss of pollo is asking us to go psychotic just to please him and his antics but for what concerns me he can go fuck himself with all his buddies in a sewer for all I care.

 

Yes, communism can work.

you just need to kill off, or depose the leader who got you there (flim flam man) as soon as possible after you start the government, and install someone who knows how to make things work, and may or may not suck at this whole politicking thing.

we don't want or need a charismatic leader, we need one who can do the job and has decent morality (i.e. don't kill people, collateral damage is bad, stuff like that)

 

QFT, charismatic leaders are for communism what is kryptonite for superman.

 

Charismatic leaders are shit for ANYTHING except a revolution, they NEED to be martyred.

 

you're assuming that it's the leaders, and not the people who will be the problem in a supposedly communist state.

Why go to medical school when you can get the same money doing something easier?

Commmunism fails. Epically.