CAMPBELL34 VS. LIBERTINE :The War To Settle The Score...

Funny how you conviently ignored my point. You seem to block out things that don't agree with your argument. Why do you keep stating that only christians are interested in the red sea, and that there isn't any secular research done on it?

 

i believe he's trying to prove that, since debris is spread so far away, it must have either come from a 10-mile ship, or the debris must have been walking on foot. hmmm! lol

 

ROFL!!

So the Romans were carrying pottery when they were chasing the Isrealites through the Red Sea?!

That's the type of stuff they have been escavating, not chariots. They havent found an army's worth or men OR chariots down there.

 

First of all: ROMANS?

Second of all: you'll find pottery in ships, I'll give you that. You won't find thousands of chariots.

 

youve got one thing right

 

God being God knew from the beginning how it was going to be. He knew that Adam would sin, He knew that He was going to have to die on the cross for the sins of the world. He created people knowing that most would reject Him, and would die and go to hell. Yet everyone had the free choice to choose Him. I know certain things will happen in the future only because the God I believe in has either shown this to me in His Word, or has revelaed it to me.
Could you explain you last question in a little more detail.

 

Hell was never created for man, but rather was created for the Devil and his angles. When you reject Christ, you become part of that orginal rebelion. God has pointed out in the Bible that no matter how virtuous you think you are, no matter how many people you think you have made happy, your best works before the Throne of God are but filthy rags. You cannot do enought good to earn salvation. That's why Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount. He showed the Jews what would be required to earn salvation by the works of the law. At the end of the Sermon, all the Jews knew, no one could be that good. So working your way to heaven, like putting money in your 401k, is purly a human concept. Heaven is a choice, and apperently in this life, people are keeping their wallets. That can be seen by the fact that most ignore the concept of Hell, and live a life for self, and ignore God. Nazism did not bring about the creation of the universe, the God of the Bible did. God states, "do not fear men who can destroy the body, rather fear God, who can destroy both the body and soul in Hell." This world does not care if theres a gun pointing at their heads, they just ignore it. The Bible clearly points out, that Heaven or Hell, remains a human choice. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave us His only Son, that whosoever believes in His shall not perish, but will have everlasting life. And that is the reason Jesus asks the question, "how shall they neglect, so great a Salvation?"

 

Yeah, Ghandi lived a life for himself...

I hate how people think only a christian can truely be good and selfless. You christian's speech says one thing, but your actions say another. Until those two things line up a bit closer I am not going to listen to a lecture from a christian about those who don't believe in god "live a life for self."

You guys are the one's trying to do good for a reward. When an atheist does selfless acts it is purely to do them, not for some invisible being in the sky. We need no religious motivation or reward to do the good works we do. We aren't trying to please any divine being, we don't have to be asked or told to do it. Our charity comes from our heart, not from a command. If any god is real I am sure he appreciates that. And if he doesn't (back to where it usually heads) he's an ass.

 

If "GAWD" knew what we would choose, there was no other choice, was there? He knew it, thus it was going to happen with no room for chance or choice.

The End.

 

Yes there were other choices.

Take this example, lib: In the future, you have to decide whether to use a pen or pencil to write with. At that very moment, the choice is yours. If you choose to pick up the pencil, God knew you were going to do that.

But does that strip away the fact that YOU CHOSE to pick up the pencil instead of the pen? NO. It was your choice, you had the free will to decide. Why do you have some sort of mental block on this issue?

 

God has given everyone the free will to choose Him or the Devil. Good or Evil. You can ignore the two choices for right now, but you are making that free choice now, even if you don't believe it. God never said I will give you 400 choices, or 500 choices. The God of the Bible states, "that if you seek me with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, you will surley find me." If you don't want to seek God, then that's your choice. Hell will be an unplesent reality, but don't blame God, thats the choice you are makeing. If you don't have a heart for God, then their will be plenty of others in Hell curseing Him for all eternity with you. Just remember, God gave you 2 choices in this life. And right now, it's your call, and it's your choice.

 

just because God knows WHAT we will do, (He's God, He knows everything)doesnt mean He's MAKING us do it. He doesnt control our choices, that's the whole GIFT part of free will. He is separate from it. He gives it to us, and lets go of the present, leaving it in our hands.

 

but he MADE us

 

The other day a mother said she heard voices in her head, and the voices told her to undress her three children and put them in the bay. All of her children are dead now. I don't believe it was her subconscous that told her to do this. I believe it was a manifastation of evil that worked throught her mind and influnced her to kill her children. This same kind of evil that many will say does not exist. So many over the years have done such terrible things, and just after they heard voices telling them what to do. Evil is here, but few see it for what it is. There must always be another explanation, or perhaps a chemical imbalance, ect.

 

Last night God was making love to me with my girlfriend. I was biting her neck because I felt close to her life force (God). Didn't puncture the skin because God held me back- didn't want to disrupt the balance.

Anywho, while I was thinking about drinking her very life force, God, she nodded and said "yes". God didn't bite her neck with my teeth though- restrained me...

 

Kharakov,

You are beautiful.

23


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God makes us beautiful.

 

OK, folks, let's try this again:


Could it be that there are perspectives where all significant causal events concerning our choices and related actions have a greatly minimized randomness relative to the 'view point' that we have ? Such a "perspective" does not necessarily imply that the choices and the related actions are affected by the percpetion of these "causal events." The obvious answer to the above stated question is, "Yes, of course." Think of it this way using an analog, there are situations where we can understand with very high confidence what choice will be made in a particular situation by another being, say a human being; we are not intervening or affecting the choice but we have high confidence that a particular choice will be made. Now if we apply the limiting concept of "greatly minimized randomness," stated above, to "high confidence" it may be the case that we never have an incorrect result in a very high number of test runs. One of the questions that we are then, again, drawn into is what is it "to know?"


.

 

I believe that this post by SeaHorse is a "poetic" way of saying what I have said in the above post, especially the latter portion; and the former portion is concise given the "assumption" of God:

.

 

who would have these perspectives? people with great intelligence, people who are well studied in human behaviour and psychology, regular mall-watchers.... lol. yes, of course, some people have a keener 'eye' than others, towards understanding other personalities and their probable next behaviour. we all have this ability to some extent, with people that we are familiar with; especially with family.

it definitely doesn't.

you are absolutely correct, but you miss out on the one point:
the keen watcher did not create the personality he is watching;
he is simply a passer-by, observing and learning about it. on the other hand, god actually sat down and sewed that personality together, gave it all its good and bad traits. the real question then, is, what responsibility does the creator have for his creation?

if i create a robot out of plastic and metal,
give it likes and dislikes,
wants,
illnesses,
(the ugly uni-brow that will get him teased in primary school,
will cause him to get in fights in high school,
which will result in the teachers growing angry with him,
which will result in.... which will result in.... )
pick him up and put him in a group of other robots with their own personalities, who will influence him, as he is a newcomer and 'baby',
and i know that he will be influenced in a negative way;
everyone around him is, say, a member of the robot mafia, and his family gets him into the business of killing for hire.

as he grows, different experiences shape who he is;
his robot mom dies when he's 12,
he is coddled til he's 20 years old by his robot aunt,
the friends he happens to meet,
the places he happens to walk into,
the music,
the tv,
the air he breathes,
everything makes him who he is, he has no choice in that matter, his personality (that which chooses!) grows, and changes.

so say he's generally doing bad stuff, but i have conveniently slipped out of the picture, am sort of testing him,
and he does not know that i created him;
in fact, he does not quite understand what he is doing in robotland at all, and there are a lot of theories in a lot of books that he knows he will never have the time to read them all...

he is able to use his reason and make appropriate choices to each new situation he finds himself in, but is this will of his "free"? of course not!
look at where he is!

he is an innocent by very definition, unaware, only making do.
for me to, on top of all of this, know before i even create him, that he will end up in a poor way, living an immoral life,
does the burden of responsibility for that entire robot situation not lie upon my shoulders?

of course it does.

surely i could not do all of this, pick up the plastic and metal and go to work, knowing the outcome, and still feel such anger at my robot as to condemn him to eternal suffering as punishment for the life that he has lived. the life that i decided to give to him, who i decided to create. see?

who is responsible?



love,